Flickering Torchlight and Replayability

Posted by Rampant Coyote on August 2, 2010

I chatted with a bunch of folks last week and over the weekend about Torchlight. Torchlight impressed the heck out of me when I first played it. I managed to snag it while it was sale, but it would have been well worth it at full price. It’s an excellent action-RPG, and I think I spent about thirty hours with it, having a great time.

But it faded pretty fast for me after I defeated the final boss with my main character. The whole retiring-a-PC thing didn’t do a whole lot for me (I forget the exact terminology), and neither did the bonus dungeon that you get access to after winning the game. I’ve played it a few times since then, but Torchlight definitely lost its charm – even for alt characters of different classes – after that.

I guess there’s something to be said for being able to take on higher-level worlds in Diablo.

Maybe I am too much of a goal-oriented player or something. I dunno. I’ve put a like number of hours into Din’s Curse already, and while it lacks such an overriding goal and I am not playing it as much as I was when it was first released, I’m still enjoying it in a way that I’m not when I boot up Torchlight. Go figger. I guess those dynamically generated bad guys and the time pressures of Din’s Curse end up counting for something. My main character regained his freedom / soul some time ago, which was pretty much a non-event. Like my character, I just kept on going.

This isn’t really a condemnation of Torchlight. I’m just musing over my own reaction to two games which are designed for replayability or extended play.

How about you? What gives a game more replayability for you? Did you keep playing Oblivion long after winning it? What does it take besides just being able to make totally different character builds to make a game compelling after the final Foozle has been defeated and peace restored to the kingdom?

Filed Under: Design - Comments: 14 Comments to Read

Xenovore said,

I felt much the same about Torchlight: Initially very cool and fun, but now I just don’t want to play it; I’m bored with it. (And I haven’t even advanced to the end boss yet.) In comparison to Diablo, Torchlight feels small and static; not as much to explore and everything is the same, so there’s definitely a feeling of “Been there, done that — Next!” Torchlight’s replayability would benefit from more dynamic dungeon and quest generation as well as multiplayer. (Multiplayer is huge — there may still be a sense of “been there, done that” but it’s okay if you’re going back to help your friends…)

Opening up a game to modding increases replayability dramatically. You mentioned Oblivion — the modding community has produced so much for that game that it can be played long after the main plot line has ended. (Or the main plot can well be completely ignored.) The same applies to Morrowind, Fallout 3, most of id’s games, most of Valve’s games…

At any rate, the key to replayability (at least for single player games) is to provide new content (and/or gameplay) — or more accurately, previously unseen content — whether procedurally a la Diablo, via mission packs and mods, unlocking levels(maps)/characters/items, or making the game milieu large enough that it can’t all be seen in one play-through (e.g. MMOs).

For multiplayer games, replayability is most often derived simply via the competitive or cooperative nature of the games. For example, people have been playing Quake 3 for 10+ years now (as both Quake 3 and Quake Live). Chess has been played for centuries…
Peter said,

Previously-unseen content is a big driver for me in replaying games. If I look at games I’ve replayed, they tend to be strategy games – Civ, in its various iterations, for example – where a different starting position (or starting civilization) will generate a completely different experience, or RPGs where a different set of choices will generate a different set of conditions – this could be in story/character-driven terms, like a lot of Bioware’s games, or in a more tactical sense like replaying Wizardry or the SSI Gold Box games with a different mix of classes. MMOs can mix and match the two, if their gameworlds are large enough – levelling a fighter alt in a different set of zones than you levelled your mage alt in will result in a different experience.
Brian 'Psychochild' Green said,

I felt the same way about Torchlight. I picked it up on Steam when it was $5. Great fun initially, but eventually it just felt like the same thing over and over again. I’m not sure what separates this from Diablo, which is very similar but didn’t strike me as being that way quite so quickly. I wonder if having played the previous Diablo games makes Torchlight a bit less sticky for some people.

I also suspect that the game is intended to be pretty limited by design. The developer has always talked about how they want to make an MMO based on the game, so I suspect this was supposed to be the “taster” that got people interested. It also probably gave them a shot in the arm as far as funding is concerned.

At any rate, I got my $5 worth. We’ll see how the strategy works when the MMO comes around; I wonder if people will remember the game fondly, or if they will remember being bored near the end, and how it will affect sales of the MMO.
WCG said,

I rarely even finish an RPG, let alone replay it. Well, I do go back to the game sometimes, and I generally start a new character. But the second time, I seldom get even as far as the first. Eventually, I just get tired of it and want something new.

Strategy games, yes, I replay those. I played Civilization II over and over again, for years. But after the first couple of games, I’d rarely actually finish one. I guess, with ALL games, I like the beginning of them the best.

Oddly enough, random content doesn’t seem to make much difference. I replayed the original Warlords over and over again, despite the fact that there were only a set number of races and a fixed map. (I didn’t play the sequels nearly as much, despite their random maps.) It just seemed perfectly balanced, at least for my skill level.

This is even odder if you consider the fact that I like building more than destroying, and Warlords was strictly a battle game. Maybe that’s why I prefer the beginning of RPGs. I really like creating characters and playing them when they’re weak and short of equipment. Later in the game, after I’ve learned how to best fight them, I lose interest.
Whiner said,

I never got Torchlight but I played Fate which was similar. I completed one character and started another, to take advantage of the inheritance system for Kewl Loot and (iirc) to try out some skills I hadn’t used the first time… but yeah, lost interest quickly.

It won’t surprise anyone who knows my tastes that it’s alternate *story* content that motivates me most to go play things again. Trying out new skills and powers is enough to get me to roll up new characters but then I get bored playing through the same game with them.

I am also a small sucker for unlockable bonuses, which provide goals and often new challenges at a level suitable for skills which have been buffed up by finishing the main game. If there’s really nothing new added to the game, then it’s not as obsessive, but I’ll keep coming back to it (I’m *still* slowly getting my 100% in Peggle Nights.) Super Mario World, where all those new exits to reach meant constantly finding something new, was more compulsive.
Shaf said,

I felt the same about Torchlight and Din’s Curse, Although the New Texture Mod for Torchlight makes the Dungeons more atmospheric. Torchlight was too much like fate.

Although both games are good, Din”s Curse is far more replayable and has more Character build options. Looking forward to the Dins expansion.
Burtzum said,

I’ve never played either of those games.

I’ve played around in Morrowind I don’t know how many times, and have never completed the game. I like to collect treasure from dungeons, I think thats what grabbed me in Morrowind. Also its unique world, full of swamps, deserts, ashlands, angry natives who constantly scold you, weird almost-sci-fi-looking goggled bug armor, giant flea transports, etc. I like to check out locales and their flora and fauna in RPGs, so initially Morrowind had that going for it very strongly. Stories and goals and whatnot… meh… usually don’t care much about those things. I liked that Morrowind’s story wasn’t heavy-handed. You can ignore it completely if you want. I did. I think you’re the second coming of Jesus or something like that. I dunno. Never got that far.

Oblivion punched me in the face right at the get go with a horribly cliche story/dialogue-fest in a generic fantasy world so I have yet to go back to that game. ‘You… I’ve seen you in my dreams… take the AMULET OF KINGS to my illegitimate heir, so he may take his place as leader of THE BLADES. Relight the DRAGON-FIRES, and shut THE GATES OF OBLIVION!’ Who wrote that trash? I don’t know if I could stand the intro sequence even just a second time. Ugh. I think the less story the better for re-playability. Or have the story woven into the game world rather than bonking the player over the head with it.

Asherons Call is another game that I’ve “replayed” on and off since 1999. Its a MMORPG. Again its the dungeons full of loot that kept me entertained. It has one-off items with lore surrounding them to acquire from dungeons, as in Morrowind, but also loot with randomized stats on the mob drops. And the world had plenty of its own unique creatures to check out, which often drop trophies that can be crafted into various things. Something else for me to collect. I also really like just creating characters in that game. Choosing all their stats and their look, and I spend quite a while coming up with first and last names that fit each race’s naming schemes. Yet again the story is subtle here, if you care to read the lore throughout the game you can piece it together. But you can remain blissfully ignorant if you chose.
MalcolmM said,

I never play a game after I have killed the final Foozle. I don’t have enought time to play the large backlog of games I already have, once I beat the main quest it’s done.

The only games I’ve been tempted to replay are King’s Bounty/Armored Princess. But after spending 60+ hours completing each of them, it was time to move on.
modran said,

I’ve played a bit of Diablo 2, a good portion of Sacred, Finished Titanquest quite a few times, snagged Torchlight for 10€ and finished it.

Well, I get urges to replay the first three ones (even Sacred and its load of bugs), but never Torchlight. My main problem with Torchlight is that I quickly felt constricted. The elvels are small, there no real expanse of ground, and I’m an explorer by heart, needing to go see everywhere just what is there.

In Titanquest, which is static, and which I have explored carefully, my main drive is to play with others. Alone, it feels… warmed over? Like when you use a microwave and the heat fades fast?

Also, I love having critters with me, and by the end of Torchlight, even maxed, I had to summon my pets again after EVERY fight. Got very tiring very quickly…

The games I replay are games where I can wander around and try things different, mostly. Or, when I can play with friends. Like Left 4 Dead, for instance :D. This one doesn’t get old.
Robert said,

If you haven’t played Titan’s Quest yet, GO PLAY IT NOW!

I LOVED Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 (only played single player though)

I had the same reaction that you did to Torchlight. Fine for a few hours, then once your done, well, your done.

Titan’s Quest though (a diablo-like game) is AMAZING. It continually pulls me back every couple of months for a month or two of more play.

If you haven’t tried it out yet, and you enjoy games like Diablo and Torchlight, you simply MUST go and buy it.

You can get it and it’s expansion from Steam for pretty cheap!
Robyrt said,

I played Torchlight all the way through twice. For me, the content to “explore” is the leveling system, so I was motivated to keep going by the different styles of play between, say, pet-centric mage and rapid-fire archer. The repetition got old, but honestly I was never playing the game for the story in the first place.
Kylotan said,

I got bored with Torchlight after about 3 hours. It’s not a bad game, but I have already played one Diablo, and don’t need another. It’s shinier and has some of the rough corners smoothed off, but those things have little effect on me. I’m used to primitive graphics and awkward usability through my interest in retro games, so polishing an old classic isn’t interesting to me unless it truly adds something new.

For me there’s a fairly clear divide between replayable games, where you typically explore a procedurally generated scenario that can pose different challenges each time, and single-play games, where you explore a mostly designer-created scenario. Only very rarely will I ever replay the latter because the game rules tend to be shallower, the entertainment instead coming from the gradual revelation of the designed content. Games like Diablo appear to (and attempt to) straddle this boundary but I think they are too generic – you learn all the standard solutions to the problems you will face in one playthrough. By comparison, this is not the case in Civilization where different geography and different permutations of opponents can make for a subtly yet noticeably different experience.
Gnarf said,

I’ve played through Super Mario World some times. It’s a fun game, so I want to play it every now and then.

I’d say replayability is mostly just playability. Of course there’s some stuff like how different it might be the other time around, but when Torchlight isn’t good enough to play through once, none of that matters any.

(Not that Torchlight wasn’t fun for a few hours or anything.)
Tesh said,

I used to value replayability, but these days, with so many games I’d like to play, I’m happy with rock solid playability. In fact, if a game is designed with padding to extend playtime or exclusive content only unlockable on replay, I’m actually a bit annoyed.

Torchlight and Titan Quest were both solid games I purchased on sale. I played a demo of Fate but never wound up purchasing it. I enjoyed each more than Diablo. All games of that sort are just playable once for me, though. Sure, I’ll try an alternate character, but it tires quickly. The endless loot treadmill just doesn’t do much for me. (Which neatly explains my less than enthusiastic response to DIKU MMOs.)

Perhaps if I were young and indolent, I’d find myself playing them again and again, but those days have passed. Today, I’m happy to have spent $5 on Torchlight, which gave me about 30 hours of fun playing through with an Alchemist and tinkering a bit with the other classes. I consider that to be successful, and I consider Torchlight to be a good game. It doesn’t need to be infinitely replayable for me to value it.

…because even infinitely replayable games can get boring. Settler of Catan has great replay potential, but after a few rounds, I always want to play something else. Perhaps that’s impatience on my part, but I’d like to think that it means I value variety rather than replayability. Since I have an insatiable thirst for education and information, getting stuck in one game exploring endless iterations with minor variations just isn’t satisfying.