Friday, January 15, 2010
Tales From the Table: Mr. Realism
A story of dice & paper RPGing. Lessons to be applied to the computer-game variety are left as an exercise to the reader:
The "Dungeon Master" (we'll call him Derrick) bragged about he played strictly by the rules, and that players just couldn't handle his dungeon. We finally gave him a chance.
He demanded that we very carefully note every item we purchased in town, where it was located, and perform full encumbrance calculations. This wasn't a big deal at first. But then, after we entered the dungeon, he had people slam the door shut behind us and seal it shut. No saves, no checks, we were simply trapped inside. Ah, well, we figured --- it's all part of the game.
The first encounter was pretty typical, against a bunch of kobolds. Then a fight against four goblins left one member of our party at negative hit points, and our cleric had run out of healing spells. Derrick cackled when he told us how many days it would take for someone to recover those hit points naturally, and then asked us how much food and water we'd brought with us. Then he informed us that most people in his dungeon died of thirst. Oh, and what were we going to do for light sources? Especially since our source of Light spells was the guy at negative hit points.
Some of us decided to scout ahead. We found a pit with a rope leading down into it, about twenty feet deep. I said, "I sheath my sword, unsling my pack, and sling my shield over my shoulder. Then I climb down the rope."
Derrick howled with delight. "Since you are trying to climb down the rope one-handed, you fail, and fall twenty feet to take..." he rolled the dice and continued, "seven points of damage!"
That left me at one hit point remaining. "Um, what do you mean left handed?"
"You have a shield, right?"
"Right."
"You stupidly tried to climb down the rope while holding your shield."
"No, I didn't. I told you I slung my shield over my shoulder after removing my pack."
"I didn't hear it."
I asked the other players to back up my story. Two of them did. Nobody else was paying much attention to the game anymore.
"It doesn't matter," Derrick said, "I didn't hear it. So you tried to climb down with a shield in your hand, and fall."
"Don't I get some kind of roll? Intelligence roll not to do something stupid? Or a strength roll? My strength is 18/82..."
"Doesn't matter."
"Fine."
The session ended twenty minutes later. Strangely, nobody in the party felt the urge to continue the adventure in another session.
Labels: Roleplaying Games
- posted by The Rampant Coyote @ 7:01 AM (Permalink)
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I'd have gotten up from the table, collected my dice, and left without a word at that point.
I've been through bad DM's before, but most of them at least pretend not to be the enemy. Actually LAUGHING in a malicious fashion, and using assumptions to sledgehammer players into damaging or death situations is ludicrous.
I've been through bad DM's before, but most of them at least pretend not to be the enemy. Actually LAUGHING in a malicious fashion, and using assumptions to sledgehammer players into damaging or death situations is ludicrous.
Sounds like this guy was going through the evolution of being a DM. I think the realism phase is phase 3.
I remember I went through a similar phase, though I didn't seem to enjoy it as much as this guy did. It didn't last long, because it was obvious that noone was having fun.
I think I'm on phase 5, do what's cool, in sparse amounts so it doesn't lose it's coolness factor.
(I think this is partially what bugs me about 4e, though I still play it. It seems as if everything has to be cool in 4e, so in turn, not much really is. Still, it is fun, even if everything is over the top.)
I remember I went through a similar phase, though I didn't seem to enjoy it as much as this guy did. It didn't last long, because it was obvious that noone was having fun.
I think I'm on phase 5, do what's cool, in sparse amounts so it doesn't lose it's coolness factor.
(I think this is partially what bugs me about 4e, though I still play it. It seems as if everything has to be cool in 4e, so in turn, not much really is. Still, it is fun, even if everything is over the top.)
Heh, a DM that doesn't realize that the game is supposed to be fun for everyone, not for his sadistic glee.
Now, a strict but challenging game can be fun if the DM isn't mean-spirited. I played a game in college where the DM was very strict about encumbrance, food, etc. and the party was mostly low level. We scraped for every xp we earned. But, he didn't try to act like the enemy and take glee at us failing. If there was a problem it always felt more like we didn't plan properly rather than he had it in for us.
I agree wtih Adamantyr, though, I would have just left. Unless the guy was a friend, then I'd tell him he was being an ass and then left.
Now, a strict but challenging game can be fun if the DM isn't mean-spirited. I played a game in college where the DM was very strict about encumbrance, food, etc. and the party was mostly low level. We scraped for every xp we earned. But, he didn't try to act like the enemy and take glee at us failing. If there was a problem it always felt more like we didn't plan properly rather than he had it in for us.
I agree wtih Adamantyr, though, I would have just left. Unless the guy was a friend, then I'd tell him he was being an ass and then left.
I wonder how long it took for him to wonder why no one wanted to play in his games again.
I'm the type who would have argued with him at the table.
I'm the type who would have argued with him at the table.
# posted by 
: January 15, 2010 3:08 PM
: January 15, 2010 3:08 PM
I've run into a few that GM like this (nobody this terrible, fortunately) and yeah, I've bailed immediately.
When playing MERP, we always tried to make things as realistic as possible, but never to the point where it began to limit the fun! We GMs would generally err on the side of the players, unless, of course, the players were being complete idiots. Also, the people we played with were good roleplayers most of the time, so we could generally take disasters (like a character's permanent injury or death) and turn them into cool plot elements that would strengthen the overall story and campaign.
Speaking of which, it's ALL about the story; if you can't tell a good story, you shouldn't ever be a GM.
When playing MERP, we always tried to make things as realistic as possible, but never to the point where it began to limit the fun! We GMs would generally err on the side of the players, unless, of course, the players were being complete idiots. Also, the people we played with were good roleplayers most of the time, so we could generally take disasters (like a character's permanent injury or death) and turn them into cool plot elements that would strengthen the overall story and campaign.
Speaking of which, it's ALL about the story; if you can't tell a good story, you shouldn't ever be a GM.
Was this Derrick's last name Smart by any chance? Yes, I know the real Mr. Smart spells it Derek.
# posted by : January 15, 2010 4:25 PM
: January 15, 2010 4:25 PM
I see how this can be frustrating, but some of the funniest and most remembered RPG moments we had were actually failures. Well, out GM was not really our enemy, and usually pulled us out of trouble, but if one of us did a moronic thing, something bad would happen. For example when we were playing WoD Vampire my character went to feed. He badly botched a roll and was pulled into a truck. It was full of satanists who were willing to sacrifice him to their master. Eventually my pack arranged to buy him back for money, but tried to double-cross the deal and took some heavy damage from gunfire. One of recurring motives of that camapgin was our pack getting new clothes and feeding till healthy and staed, only to get owned by some crazy dude. It was alot of fun.
I also had a session of DD where GM was angry after breaking up with his girlfriend, so our party met a dragon that got us all to low or negative hp with one breath. Not so fun.
In essence, I don't mind it when GM messes up with my character or the party as long as he is really on our side and not overly happy for having us killed. I actually enjoy campagins where things go wrong, but player characters somehow manage to survive.
Another funny things with our campagis was constant infighting between our characters. I don't really like DD attitude "party has to cooperate in order to succeed", I prefer "some of our goals are contrary, and we don't like each other, but have to cooperate anyway to succeed". I wouldn't go as far sa "We are enemies and if the world goes in our way, we will tell it to buger off while we fight each other".
I also had a session of DD where GM was angry after breaking up with his girlfriend, so our party met a dragon that got us all to low or negative hp with one breath. Not so fun.
In essence, I don't mind it when GM messes up with my character or the party as long as he is really on our side and not overly happy for having us killed. I actually enjoy campagins where things go wrong, but player characters somehow manage to survive.
Another funny things with our campagis was constant infighting between our characters. I don't really like DD attitude "party has to cooperate in order to succeed", I prefer "some of our goals are contrary, and we don't like each other, but have to cooperate anyway to succeed". I wouldn't go as far sa "We are enemies and if the world goes in our way, we will tell it to buger off while we fight each other".
# posted by : January 15, 2010 4:54 PM
: January 15, 2010 4:54 PM
Re. the realism angle, if there are kobolds and goblins in this dungeon, where are they getting THEIR water?
I've never actually played a dice and paper RPG, so I don't know. Realism sounds good, but these settings tend to be highly unrealistic in the first place, don't they? The DM would really have to work to make everything perfectly logical.
Meh, this is why I don't play MMO games either. There's always some jerk around to spoil things. (I'm getting pretty antisocial in my old age.)
I've never actually played a dice and paper RPG, so I don't know. Realism sounds good, but these settings tend to be highly unrealistic in the first place, don't they? The DM would really have to work to make everything perfectly logical.
Meh, this is why I don't play MMO games either. There's always some jerk around to spoil things. (I'm getting pretty antisocial in my old age.)
If I had a guy bragging how players couldn't handle his game, I'd start out by telling him "That's nothing to brag about."
Any DM can slaughter the party if he wants to. Easy enough, giant block falls, squashes party flat. Nope, no save, the block was too wide, you couldn't possibly get out from underneath it.
It's never "me verses the players". That is a pervasive "old-school" attitude. Yes, Knights of the Dinner Table is funny, but remember that it's a comic, not real, and that the players who write it have been solid friends for decades. You start acting like this in a real game, you'll find you have no friends or players very quickly.
In particular, old-school games still have a trace of the war gaming school of thought attached... with a perverse attention to minute detail. This "simulationist" approach has gotten less popular over time because computer games do it way better and in table top speed is more important than accuracy.
A good point about the monsters and THEIR water source. Of course, the DM would have their water well be poisoned or something so he could cackle once more when the players try and drink it. Never mind that the monsters shouldn't know the players need water, and that destroying their only water source is equally foolish. You can't win with a guy like that, except by not playing.
Any DM can slaughter the party if he wants to. Easy enough, giant block falls, squashes party flat. Nope, no save, the block was too wide, you couldn't possibly get out from underneath it.
It's never "me verses the players". That is a pervasive "old-school" attitude. Yes, Knights of the Dinner Table is funny, but remember that it's a comic, not real, and that the players who write it have been solid friends for decades. You start acting like this in a real game, you'll find you have no friends or players very quickly.
In particular, old-school games still have a trace of the war gaming school of thought attached... with a perverse attention to minute detail. This "simulationist" approach has gotten less popular over time because computer games do it way better and in table top speed is more important than accuracy.
A good point about the monsters and THEIR water source. Of course, the DM would have their water well be poisoned or something so he could cackle once more when the players try and drink it. Never mind that the monsters shouldn't know the players need water, and that destroying their only water source is equally foolish. You can't win with a guy like that, except by not playing.
Um...Wow, sadistic DM.
I however can't get enough of bad stories, they make me chuckle making me glad I've never had the same experience.
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I however can't get enough of bad stories, they make me chuckle making me glad I've never had the same experience.
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