Tuesday, July 28, 2009
Payin' the Indies
Reverend Anthony offers his Rev Rant about donating to indies for small games:
An excerpt:
"We're willing to pay $60 on the chance that a game will be good, so long as it's a big budget, mainstream title. I mean, we may have paid a demo of a game like Assassin's Creed, or whatever, but when we pay that 60 bucks, we're still gambling. We don't know that it will be good. But we'll pay it anyway, because 60 (dollars) is the norm... But we won't pay a dime - not a f***ng dime - for a game that we just finished playing, even if it was fantastic. "There are actually three different points here, and while I agree with two of them, I think the third one stumbles into human nature problems that just won't be fixed no matter how vociferously one makes his appeal.
And I haven't played Assassin's Creed, so I can't speak on that one with any authority.
The first point is that we can and should be creative with how we compensate people for making us games. I agree. The one-size-fits-all shrink-wrapped boxed-display-packaged physical goods model is a relic of an era that isn't quite dead yet, but it's probably in its twilight years as far as software (and other media) is concerned. Maybe we should be more creative. Certainly bypassing the middlemen and the physical package is part of it - but maybe we can do better.
But that is currently running into problems with his second point, which is the actual pricing of these little indie games (particularly when compared to mainstream titles). It's weird and counter-intuitive, but oftentimes people will agonize and debate more over paying $10 or $20 for a small indi game than they will paying $50 or $60 for a mainstream game. Or maybe it has something to do with the formality of the games business. Do people feel weird giving their money to some dude out in Nebraska over the Internet, but feel better handing their credit card to some overweight clerk at Game Stop to process because it's more conventional and seems more like a "real" business?
Maybe it's an expectation thing. Here in the U.S., we're accustomed to paying as much or more for a 24 ounce cup of carbonated beverage (which is mostly ice) at a restaurant as we'd pay for a big ol' 2-liter bottle in the grocery store. (And yes, we mix metric and English measurements like that all the time, too.) Because it's at a restaurant, our pricing expectations get reset.
Maybe the problem is we're now all programmed to expect games to be $50 - $60. If a game doesn't cost that much, then we automatically assume it's an inferior game, and an inferior game just isn't worth our money. Or, on the flip side, maybe people still think that just because it's on the Internet, it should be free. Case closed. A lame, emotional, knee-jerk reaction with very little logic to back it up, but that's the way it goes. Maybe. Or maybe that's just me (and I've been happily buying games for a while, so I'd assume I'm a little more "deprogrammed" than your average gamer).
This, I think, can be addressed over time. It's just expectations that need to be reset. Rants like this one help.
The third point he brings up is paying for the game after you have played it.
Some things in our world work that way. In labor / service businesses, you are often billed for a project after it is done. Larger projects might involve milestone payments along the way. But sometimes collecting on those charges can be so difficult that it's spawned its own industry. Psychologically, people are hard-wired to trade for those things that they want, not things that they already have.
I don't know if any amount of ranting is going to change human nature here. Shareware authors back in the late 80's and 90's tried - and failed - repeatedly to get conversions to go up without resorting to crippling features. But apparently, appealing to basic goodness and responsibility of human nature only works on about 5% of your potential customer base.
The rest need to be bribed.
I think while it's good to make the appeal to people to donate (even after the fact) and pay for these tiny but fun indie games - if for no other reason than to remind people that these may be labors of love, but they are most definitely LABORS that deserve compensation as much as fixing someone's roof or car or performing magic tricks at a birthday party. But ultimately, I think the failure is on the developer side. A game developer has to have to have a plan in place in order to profit from those psycho hours that they work when they could have been relaxing and spending time with their family like normal human beings.
Which brings us back to the first point - creatively compensating developers. There are some really weird, interesting ideas out there that could be explored that haven't been. A street performer accepting donations might also accept requests from those who donate. Gabe Newell's idea of gamers being investors might have some merit, too. What about custom endings? Some of these ideas don't scale too well to selling thousands of copies (let alone millions that the mainstream shoots for), but they might scale just enough that they work for indies.
But the biggest thing we have to get over, I think, is the expectation that a game has to exhibit all the graphical glitziness and slickness of an expensive mainstream production to be worth our time and money. I'm not sure how that illusion got into place, and I know I've gotten way more value out of a $20 or $25 indie game than from a LOT of mainstream titles costing more than twice as much (will I ever finish Mass Effect?). Yet I still experience some irrational hesitation at times when it comes to indie games, though I prefer to chalk it up to the fact that I don't have enough time to finish all the games I have already bought...
Labels: Biz, Indie Evangelism
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I agree with you about the fact people just assume any game over $10 has to look better then crysis.
As for the guy in the videos rant I agree with the fact games shouldn't be paid for upfront. I agree with you too jay that the shrink wrapped gamestop pay-up-front model will "die" given time.
So I really do feel that as indies we need to bring some of our brights minds together to brainstorm some decent "pay after you enjoy" models to the video game business.
Unfortunately as it stands right now... most indie devs that want to make a living creating great games have to charge pretty much upfront in order to profit enough to buy food for their families.
As for the guy in the videos rant I agree with the fact games shouldn't be paid for upfront. I agree with you too jay that the shrink wrapped gamestop pay-up-front model will "die" given time.
So I really do feel that as indies we need to bring some of our brights minds together to brainstorm some decent "pay after you enjoy" models to the video game business.
Unfortunately as it stands right now... most indie devs that want to make a living creating great games have to charge pretty much upfront in order to profit enough to buy food for their families.
I don't think it's a 'formality' thing at all. Not an 'expectation' thing either. Nor a 'programming' thing.
To be frank, I think all those are red herrings that are put up so that the little guy can feel that he has a chance to 'figure it out' and win against the big guy. I don't think any of those have anything more than an trivial, incidental effect.
What do I think it is, then. Simple... when I go and pay whatever amount of money for, say, Bioshock (when it had just come out), I can then go to my school/college/reunion with friends and say, "DUDE, I just got Bioshock!!" and get reactions of "Oh man, Bioshock?? AWESOME!! That game is going to rock, I'm gonna get it next week!"
I can then discuss the game with my friends, we can keep up on how far each one gets into it, who wins it first, what everybody thinks about it, tell each other secret codes, play LAN parties together... etc. That's worth $60 to me. To anybody.
You don't get that with indie games. And I love indie games, but they are most definitely a different experience. A *solitary* experience. An experience where you are trying to *convince* other people to play the same game as you so you have someone to talk to, or talk on online forums (which will never be the same).
Either that or you just accept that no-one else around you is going to play it and just keep it to yourself, as your own special private thing that you have for yourself during your 'me time'. Is that worth $60?
So that's what I think it is... it's a 'mass marketing' and 'social status' thing. When I can go to a party and say to my friends, "Hey guys I just went and bought Avernum 3!" and I get replies like above, then we'll be talking.
But that's never going to happen of course, because we'd be talking big marketing and branding budgets that would need to exist.
The point here is that the question itself of, "Why would people pay $60 for a mainstream game but not $20 for an indie game" is completely misleading. Yeah they're both video games... and that's where the similarity stops. You're talking about completely different benefits/results delivered through completely different experiences, of course they're going to be completely different pricing in the minds of people.
To be frank, I think all those are red herrings that are put up so that the little guy can feel that he has a chance to 'figure it out' and win against the big guy. I don't think any of those have anything more than an trivial, incidental effect.
What do I think it is, then. Simple... when I go and pay whatever amount of money for, say, Bioshock (when it had just come out), I can then go to my school/college/reunion with friends and say, "DUDE, I just got Bioshock!!" and get reactions of "Oh man, Bioshock?? AWESOME!! That game is going to rock, I'm gonna get it next week!"
I can then discuss the game with my friends, we can keep up on how far each one gets into it, who wins it first, what everybody thinks about it, tell each other secret codes, play LAN parties together... etc. That's worth $60 to me. To anybody.
You don't get that with indie games. And I love indie games, but they are most definitely a different experience. A *solitary* experience. An experience where you are trying to *convince* other people to play the same game as you so you have someone to talk to, or talk on online forums (which will never be the same).
Either that or you just accept that no-one else around you is going to play it and just keep it to yourself, as your own special private thing that you have for yourself during your 'me time'. Is that worth $60?
So that's what I think it is... it's a 'mass marketing' and 'social status' thing. When I can go to a party and say to my friends, "Hey guys I just went and bought Avernum 3!" and I get replies like above, then we'll be talking.
But that's never going to happen of course, because we'd be talking big marketing and branding budgets that would need to exist.
The point here is that the question itself of, "Why would people pay $60 for a mainstream game but not $20 for an indie game" is completely misleading. Yeah they're both video games... and that's where the similarity stops. You're talking about completely different benefits/results delivered through completely different experiences, of course they're going to be completely different pricing in the minds of people.
I just wait to buy the game until I know whether it is worth $60. And by then, it's usually only $40. I don't finish games on the same schedule as my friends anyway.
The Gabe Newell idea is the one that I can see scaling pretty well, not just for indies. Then again, only the ones struggling to make a profit will try anything as "extreme" as that.
Part of this is pricing psychology. Through years of marketing, gamers are told that the latest, most attractive games are the best one and that other ones are worthless. This works well with the way the industry works: focus on improving the visual representations so that people buy the newer (more expensive) games.
As I posted in the link above, I had to deal with this for M59. People don't believe the game is "worth" $10.95/month. They say that's "almost" as much as the $14.95 other MMO games charge per month (and ignoring the expenses for expansions, etc.) It comes down to the fact that the game is old and isn't pretty, so it's considered worth less.
Another story I was told is that 3DO tried to give the Meridian 59 client away for free on a CD at a display near the cash register at game stores. Nobody touched it because they assumed "free wasn't worth it." When the charged a token amount, the CDs started moving.
I don't buy Harry's explanation, either. You could just as easily talk about Passage to friends and have them go download it to share the experience. Why can't you recommend the game to them? Why won't they go download it? I don't believe it's just the shared experience here. I think it's running up against the biases of games that aren't displaying the latest and greatest graphical presentation. It's that people have fallen for the marketing.
I see a catch-22 here. If Passage were only available for $5, I suspect few people would have actually made that purchase. I probably wouldn't have. So, the developer offers the game for free and hopes people will be kind. Well, as shown, people are only really interested in paying for things they don't have.
So the issue becomes: how do we convince people that games without the latest graphics are worth paying something for? I've always thought we should use the power of marketing for our cause. Get people to think of indie games as something cool and different instead of just a crappy looking alternative to the shiny $60 games.
As I posted in the link above, I had to deal with this for M59. People don't believe the game is "worth" $10.95/month. They say that's "almost" as much as the $14.95 other MMO games charge per month (and ignoring the expenses for expansions, etc.) It comes down to the fact that the game is old and isn't pretty, so it's considered worth less.
Another story I was told is that 3DO tried to give the Meridian 59 client away for free on a CD at a display near the cash register at game stores. Nobody touched it because they assumed "free wasn't worth it." When the charged a token amount, the CDs started moving.
I don't buy Harry's explanation, either. You could just as easily talk about Passage to friends and have them go download it to share the experience. Why can't you recommend the game to them? Why won't they go download it? I don't believe it's just the shared experience here. I think it's running up against the biases of games that aren't displaying the latest and greatest graphical presentation. It's that people have fallen for the marketing.
I see a catch-22 here. If Passage were only available for $5, I suspect few people would have actually made that purchase. I probably wouldn't have. So, the developer offers the game for free and hopes people will be kind. Well, as shown, people are only really interested in paying for things they don't have.
So the issue becomes: how do we convince people that games without the latest graphics are worth paying something for? I've always thought we should use the power of marketing for our cause. Get people to think of indie games as something cool and different instead of just a crappy looking alternative to the shiny $60 games.
The last paragraph is spot-on, and the problem is compounded further if you're like me and consistently refuse to pay $60 even for an amazingly well-designed mainstream hit. Normally I wait until the AAA titles have dropped to the $35-25 price range at the very least. The only exceptions during the last three years or so have been Oblivion, Fallout 3, Mass Effect and BioShock, and in all instances I've sort of regretted the decision not to wait for the inevitable discount (Mass Effect was arguably worth it, though). Thus, if I have a choice between, say, a glossy big budget product with state-of-the-art 3D graphics for $25 and a seemingly simple (or even downright simplistic) 2D indie title for the exact same price it's embarrassingly easy to guess what I'll eventually decide to buy.
All that being said, I still do buy indie games once in a while and am constantly on the look-out for new interesting titles by small developers. Part of the appeal is undeniably the "de facto donation" aspect discussed by Jeff Vogel in a recent blog post on The Bottom Feeder; i.e. it simply feels so darn good to support hard-working independent programmers and artists for whom every single purchase matters, as opposed to the huge faceless publishers and developers who churn out more or less the same massively advertised sequels year after year.
All that being said, I still do buy indie games once in a while and am constantly on the look-out for new interesting titles by small developers. Part of the appeal is undeniably the "de facto donation" aspect discussed by Jeff Vogel in a recent blog post on The Bottom Feeder; i.e. it simply feels so darn good to support hard-working independent programmers and artists for whom every single purchase matters, as opposed to the huge faceless publishers and developers who churn out more or less the same massively advertised sequels year after year.
With respect to giving credit cards over the internet vs. in person, the difference is that I can see if he's swiping it through a third-party reader to skim my card when I'm right there in front of him.
As to being accustomed to paying $60/game, that's not normally me. Unless it's a particular type of game, I'm going to wait for a used copy to show up, or the price to drop on Steam. People who buy $60 games either sell them into the used market, or are giving them as gifts. Or, they're banking on the reputation of the studio or the property.
In fact, people buying sequels is not a bad thing at all; from a human nature perspective, I think it IS putting money in the tip jar. Younger gamers can't afford some games; when they get older, they buy the sequels or remakes. Older folks will rent or warez a game, then a year or two later buy the next piece of the story plus the gold edition of the first one.
To my mind, the problem with indie games (and shareware before it) is that the attempts to extract recompense come too soon to trigger this nostalgia reflex.
I'd argue that this is a problem for art in general.
(It might be tied to the whole "novel gameplay mechanic" aspect of most high-profile indie games; commercial games have a much easier time communicating what they do because the central mechanic is typically part of the vernacular. Also, they have a bigger marketing budget to work with, so it's easier to allude to previous game experiences being in their game, thus triggering that nostalgia effect..)
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As to being accustomed to paying $60/game, that's not normally me. Unless it's a particular type of game, I'm going to wait for a used copy to show up, or the price to drop on Steam. People who buy $60 games either sell them into the used market, or are giving them as gifts. Or, they're banking on the reputation of the studio or the property.
In fact, people buying sequels is not a bad thing at all; from a human nature perspective, I think it IS putting money in the tip jar. Younger gamers can't afford some games; when they get older, they buy the sequels or remakes. Older folks will rent or warez a game, then a year or two later buy the next piece of the story plus the gold edition of the first one.
To my mind, the problem with indie games (and shareware before it) is that the attempts to extract recompense come too soon to trigger this nostalgia reflex.
I'd argue that this is a problem for art in general.
(It might be tied to the whole "novel gameplay mechanic" aspect of most high-profile indie games; commercial games have a much easier time communicating what they do because the central mechanic is typically part of the vernacular. Also, they have a bigger marketing budget to work with, so it's easier to allude to previous game experiences being in their game, thus triggering that nostalgia effect..)
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