Friday, February 13, 2009
Frayed Knights: Exploring Wilderlands and Looking Under Rocks
It's time for another update on the development of Frayed Knights. This article is actually a bit more generic and fuzzy, dealing with computer RPG design issues in general, and the challenges common to all of them that I am finding myself facing in Frayed Knights.Detailing Hexes
Many years ago, pen-and-paper RPG company Necromancer Games acquired the license to update the classic Judges' Guild material to the then-current 3rd edition of Dungeons & Dragons. For those unfamiliar with ol' D&D history, Judges' Guild was the first "official" third-party licensee to make support materials for Dungeons & Dragons, from the mid-70's until about the early 80's. TSR, the publisher of D&D, didn't believe there was a market for things like adventure modules and campaign settings at the time.
Naturally, that changed over time, but in the old days of D&D, many players were familiar with the Judges' Guild campaign setting, the Wilderlands.
In January 2003, I was invited to work on the update for The Wilderlands campaign setting for D20. The task was daunting (and unpaid, but I knew that going into it), but fun. The old Wilderlands material was barely useful. The original setting had some hex maps with numbered keys. Because there was so much there, detail was excruciatingly lacking - no better than the results of rolling random encounters. I'd have a hex that would say something like "24 Apes." Okay - so in this 20-mile hex, there are 24 apes here.
I was tasked with expanding dozens of these entries into something fairly interesting of one or two paragraphs in length (plus stat entries). So my expansion on the ape entry read:
Temple of the Ape God (EL 10)Plus the stat-block entry for the 22 normal apes, and the "advanced" leader. The final version was still a little on the vague side, but it was more of a "hook" for the Dungeon Master to build something out of. Is there more than a coincidental resemblance between the alpha male and the ape god statue? Maybe. I left that open to interpretation and expansion.
A stone temple stands in a clearing beside a small stream. It is a simple platform, with stone beams supporting the framework for a missing roof. An altar rests before a statue of some huge ape. The statue is exquisitely carved, though time has worn down its features and it is covered with bird droppings and layers of dirt. Despite this, it is an imposing figure, dedicated to a forgotten ape god. Whether it was built by some intelligent race of apes, or by other beings worshipping these creatures, none can say. A tribe of twenty-three apes dwells in this part of the jungle and jealously protects the temple from any intruders. Their leader and alpha male is a ferocious beast that resembles the massive icon in the temple.
In fact, one of Necromancer's plans at the time was to have a series of downloadable mini-modules based on these entries, showing how the entries could be expanded into a full-fledged adventure. I worked on three of these, too.
Unfortunately, with the early announcement and release of edition 3.5 and the change in the market, plans for the Judges' Guild releases were tossed into turmoil. The final campaign setting was delayed a couple of years, completely re-worked for 3.5, and neither my contributions, nor the contributions of others that I edited, were to be found in the final version. The mini-module plan was scrapped, as far as I can tell.
The released version of the campaign setting (out of print now, but available as a PDF) was pretty cool, though. If you are ever hunting for adventure seeds, it is an outstanding resource.
Wilderlands Everywhere!
While I was disappointed with my exclusion from the much-delayed final release (and I'd lost contact with the guys in charge in the intervening years, anyway), the experience was a valuable one for me. It helped me solidify some thoughts on RPG design - and exercised some creative neural pathways in my brain.
Most importantly, it reminded me of why I loved roleplaying games so much. While the whole "playing a virtual role" and challenging tactics were all part of the fun, the "big idea" that thrilled me back when I first discovered D&D at age twelve. For me, it was all about the exploration. The expectation that behind every tree, over every hill was an adventure, beneath every rock there was a treasure or mystery to be explained, and behind every closed door was something wonderful or terrible waiting to be discovered.
I'd love one of these Wilderlands-style encounters or discoveries to be around every corner. I want an open-ended game-world bursting at the seams with details, mysteries, mayhem, adventure, and wonder.
Horizons and Computer RPGs
That is how I want a computer RPG to be, as well. Unfortunately - especially with modern games - it is practically the opposite. Too many games in the past bragged about how large their game worlds were, yet most of the actual gameplay involved long, boring journeys with nothing to do except fight random, meaningless battles.
To be fair, one of the games that came closest to meeting this expectation (for me) was Oblivion (though I expect Fallout 3 will be similar, once I install it... after I'm done with Wizardry 8). Unfortunatly, so much of the stuff found off the beaten path in every direction felt likewise random and meaningless. My brain began rebelling as it tried to perceive some kind of plot-related patterns behind things, and eventually gave into disappointment. The world lost a lot of its life for me at that point.
But it provided a good baseline. In an RPG, you don't want the player to have to go moving around too long or too far without stumbling into something to do or a decision to make. Big, empty worlds are boring.
Likewise, the modern design school of blocking off all the "uninteresting" parts is also frustrating to my exploration-seeking mind. As someone who is always wondering what is behind the next door, it's frustrating to find that all but three doors in the town are merely backdrops, untouchable and unenterable, and those back alleys and side-streets are blocked off. As my brain is always seeking what's beyond the horizon, I'm always disappointed to have those horizons taken away from me.
Practicality
But there's the problem of practicality. I mean, if you let me go down one side-street, I'll want to go down the next... and the next. I want to keep opening doors and go over the next hill - and all of that has to be pre-generated (or at least randomly generated). It must be scripted. Artwork, animations, and sound has to be created. It has to be tested. Debugged. Tracked. States have to be maintained and saved. There are triggering conditions, and especially in 3D there's only so much detail and objects that you can show on the screen at once before the player's 4-year-old machine blows a gasket.
And that's where I get frustrated as a designer / developer / programmer on Frayed Knights. As you folks know (if you played the pilot), I've fallen victim to these same game-design shortcuts that irritate me as a player. There are doors in the village that are (currently) unusable, areas that block movement without good reason, and stretches of hallways and village road that just take too long to travel without anything interesting happening (I've corrected this somewhat by increasing movement speed by 50% over that in the pilot, but it's still just a crutch).
I populated the entry hall of the Temple of Pokmor Xang with a ton of objects to poke around with, but while they provide some small insights into the setting and storyline (and some token inventory additions), they still aren't quite what I'm looking for. I'm annoyed by my own (hopefully temporary) inability to fix what I consider broken in other RPGs.
I have some ideas for improving things, but they are still just... gestating. In fact, I wouldn't mind soliciting ideas here for how to improve things and make the world more "chock full of adventure" without introducing hundreds of tons of new content requirements and technological overhead.
So what are your thoughts? How does "exploration" rate in your list of preferred RPG activities? What are your expectations? How would you deal with the ape temple encounter? What kinds of details are extraneous to you in an RPG, and which are welcome?
Labels: Frayed Knights, Game Design
- posted by The Rampant Coyote @ 5:59 AM (Permalink)
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Yes, Fallout 3 is that way, as long as you stay away from the main quest. I spent 50 hours in non-optimizing explorer mode, and could probably get another 20 hours out of the game.
Those are a lot of questions don't you think? =)
Thinking about the temple of pokmor xang you could do a lot of things, although I wouldn't recommend going overboard, after all as I've said in the critique, this is the first dungeon and should function like a tutorial (I'm guessing that the final game starts exactly like the pilot, throwing the player directly in the dungeon).
Anyways, if it's content what you seek, these are the things that you can try:
* Add more conversations for item examination. Getting a simple description is never the same as having the party members discuss it.
* Add more items to collect but guarded with traps. Or add more traps in general.
* Secret pathways are never unappreciated.
* Special encounters (being ambushed).
* Interesting scenery that the player can interact with (such as the pool of snot).
* Puzzles! Who doesn't love puzzles? Be it by traditional item usage, lever pulling, torture devices, jumping puzzles, evading puzzles, box moving, character driven (convincing a guard), timing puzzles, order puzzles and big etc.
Is that enough or do you need more ideas?
Thinking about the temple of pokmor xang you could do a lot of things, although I wouldn't recommend going overboard, after all as I've said in the critique, this is the first dungeon and should function like a tutorial (I'm guessing that the final game starts exactly like the pilot, throwing the player directly in the dungeon).
Anyways, if it's content what you seek, these are the things that you can try:
* Add more conversations for item examination. Getting a simple description is never the same as having the party members discuss it.
* Add more items to collect but guarded with traps. Or add more traps in general.
* Secret pathways are never unappreciated.
* Special encounters (being ambushed).
* Interesting scenery that the player can interact with (such as the pool of snot).
* Puzzles! Who doesn't love puzzles? Be it by traditional item usage, lever pulling, torture devices, jumping puzzles, evading puzzles, box moving, character driven (convincing a guard), timing puzzles, order puzzles and big etc.
Is that enough or do you need more ideas?
I want an open-ended game-world bursting at the seams with details, mysteries, mayhem, adventure, and wonder.
If this isn't the best way to describe my exact feelings in only one sentence then I don't know what it is!
RPGs are IMHO the "king's class" of game genres as only they can provide freedom, adventure, story and a high level of interaction including combat, object manipulation and dialogues - in a single game.
As for the ape encounter: Chances are that they are Bonobos, guarding their secret sex temple!
Simply staying out of it will spare you some "exploration" - by the Bonobos, that is... ;-)
If this isn't the best way to describe my exact feelings in only one sentence then I don't know what it is!
RPGs are IMHO the "king's class" of game genres as only they can provide freedom, adventure, story and a high level of interaction including combat, object manipulation and dialogues - in a single game.
As for the ape encounter: Chances are that they are Bonobos, guarding their secret sex temple!
Simply staying out of it will spare you some "exploration" - by the Bonobos, that is... ;-)
Exploration is a huge draw in RPGs for me as well. If you generally liked Oblivion but felt it feel a little short in that department, yes, you will enjoy Fallout 3. Specifically, Bethesda shrank the total area but filled it with more interesting stuff.
Coincidentally (or not) that would be one of my suggestions for Frayed Knights as well. The temple and town felt too big. Increasing the movement speed may have helped, but I think it would be better to shrink the area (while keeping the same content instead). After all, a larger game area is useless unless there is actually stuff to do inside of it.
I know some will disagree with me, but I feel it is better to have a smaller RPG world where everything is explorable and useable than a giant epic map with fake doors and vast stretches of wilderness.
I agree with indigostatic; adding more dialogue between party members instead of generic (though still clever) item descriptions is the way to go.
If you are really a master of the dialogue, you could include all the fake doors and dead-end alleys you wanted, and make a massive running joke of the whole thing.
About the entrance hall in the Temple of Pokmor Xang; I was thrilled with the dialogue from investigating items, then totally perplexed how a group that discussed crates at length would have no comment for the prominent portrait of the chicken leg eating god of pimples.
And I know this is a little off-topic, but since we are discussing Frayed Knights... A lot has been said about the drama stars, and I would like to quickly say that until reading your blog, I had no idea the disappearing drama stars after loading a game was a feature. I thought it was bug, and I know as a conscientious designer, it will terrify you to know that a player mistook a feature for a bug. Maybe I missed the drama star tutorial, but I certainly don't remember it.
Coincidentally (or not) that would be one of my suggestions for Frayed Knights as well. The temple and town felt too big. Increasing the movement speed may have helped, but I think it would be better to shrink the area (while keeping the same content instead). After all, a larger game area is useless unless there is actually stuff to do inside of it.
I know some will disagree with me, but I feel it is better to have a smaller RPG world where everything is explorable and useable than a giant epic map with fake doors and vast stretches of wilderness.
I agree with indigostatic; adding more dialogue between party members instead of generic (though still clever) item descriptions is the way to go.
If you are really a master of the dialogue, you could include all the fake doors and dead-end alleys you wanted, and make a massive running joke of the whole thing.
About the entrance hall in the Temple of Pokmor Xang; I was thrilled with the dialogue from investigating items, then totally perplexed how a group that discussed crates at length would have no comment for the prominent portrait of the chicken leg eating god of pimples.
And I know this is a little off-topic, but since we are discussing Frayed Knights... A lot has been said about the drama stars, and I would like to quickly say that until reading your blog, I had no idea the disappearing drama stars after loading a game was a feature. I thought it was bug, and I know as a conscientious designer, it will terrify you to know that a player mistook a feature for a bug. Maybe I missed the drama star tutorial, but I certainly don't remember it.
# posted by 
: February 13, 2009 1:51 PM
: February 13, 2009 1:51 PM
I've been thinking about things recently which kinda intersect this topic.
You see I recently got Left 4 Dead. It has this wonderful AI director which manages the zombies and the gameplay. It randomizes content a bit and maintains pace. If you've say still to long it throws more stuff at you, if you are having too easy a time it ups the challenge, etc. More sophisticated than Oblivion's level scaling, it seems to have a sense of dramatic pacing, peaks and troughs of challenge.
And at work we're playing Diablo2 again, with it's random content.
So I was thinking about random generation recently. I'd thought about doing something for SoW. For example, let's say you have a cave entrance. The game could have a pool of possible caves you could enter, and randomly choose one from the bag for your when you go through.
But what if you introduce the idea of some sort of AI director like Left 4 Dead? Something which has a sense of how long you've gone off the main plot path and could tweak the randomness, throw in plot specific caves or NPCs at certain times? Maybe it detects that you've been without plot advancement for 5 hours and spawns a note in a dungeon which leads you back on track?
Interesting to contemplate.
You see I recently got Left 4 Dead. It has this wonderful AI director which manages the zombies and the gameplay. It randomizes content a bit and maintains pace. If you've say still to long it throws more stuff at you, if you are having too easy a time it ups the challenge, etc. More sophisticated than Oblivion's level scaling, it seems to have a sense of dramatic pacing, peaks and troughs of challenge.
And at work we're playing Diablo2 again, with it's random content.
So I was thinking about random generation recently. I'd thought about doing something for SoW. For example, let's say you have a cave entrance. The game could have a pool of possible caves you could enter, and randomly choose one from the bag for your when you go through.
But what if you introduce the idea of some sort of AI director like Left 4 Dead? Something which has a sense of how long you've gone off the main plot path and could tweak the randomness, throw in plot specific caves or NPCs at certain times? Maybe it detects that you've been without plot advancement for 5 hours and spawns a note in a dungeon which leads you back on track?
Interesting to contemplate.
@LateWhiteRabbit:
"I know some will disagree with me"
I for one, do not disagree with you =)
Oh, and to my knowledge, there wasn't any drama star tutorial implemented.
"I know some will disagree with me"
I for one, do not disagree with you =)
Oh, and to my knowledge, there wasn't any drama star tutorial implemented.
@Gareth: Interesting to contemplate, a nightmare of unspeakable horrors to implement.
Yeah, it's an interesting concept, but given that all you do in left 4 dead is shoot zombies with friends by your side, the AI director doesn't need to be so overly complicated.
In a RPG where the enjoyment doesn't come primarily from the combat, but from the dialogs and preset content... I can't simply imagine something like this actually being any good.
Maybe it could work in something like Scars of War, but in Frayed Knights I higly doubt it (And I'm not counting the effort necessary to code the AI "director").
However, downscaling the concept, this could actually work rather well for the management of random encounters and possibly other its and pieces here and there.
Yeah, it's an interesting concept, but given that all you do in left 4 dead is shoot zombies with friends by your side, the AI director doesn't need to be so overly complicated.
In a RPG where the enjoyment doesn't come primarily from the combat, but from the dialogs and preset content... I can't simply imagine something like this actually being any good.
Maybe it could work in something like Scars of War, but in Frayed Knights I higly doubt it (And I'm not counting the effort necessary to code the AI "director").
However, downscaling the concept, this could actually work rather well for the management of random encounters and possibly other its and pieces here and there.
"...the modern design school of blocking off all the "uninteresting" parts is also frustrating to my exploration-seeking mind. ...it's frustrating to find that all but three doors in the town are merely backdrops, untouchable and unenterable, and those back alleys and side-streets are blocked off. As my brain is always seeking what's beyond the horizon, I'm always disappointed to have those horizons taken away from me."
Could not agree more! I'm especially annoyed when I'm blocked by the obvious invisible wall! And then there's the latest fad of just outright killing the player if he strays outside the "mission area"... Meh.
Designers! Be more creative than that! Cliffs work pretty well, or pools of lava, or... use whatever as long as it makes some sense within the context of the game world. Invisible walls do not make sense. Ever. And killing the player for no other reason than he wanted to see what was over the hill -- No, it's never cool and we will hate you passionately for it!
And don't put doors in and not let the player interacted with them - especially in a RPG! In the real world, locks can be picked, doors can be kicked down, or hacked open... Unless we're from some Bornean society that lives in door-less huts made out of leaves, we're naturally going to want to open doors when we see them. So, designers, don't even bother putting a door there if you can't come up with something to put behind it!
Ok, now that that's been said...
LateWhiteRabbit said, "...it is better to have a smaller RPG world where everything is explorable and useable than a giant epic map with fake doors and vast stretches of wilderness."
I agree, but of course there's a very fine balance here and you can easily go overboard in either direction...
On the one hand, if you've been wandering around for 3 days on the Plains of Utter Flatness, with nothing to show but a sharp stick, a loincloth, and 3 copper pieces, then obviously you are fully within your rights to feel bored! (Actually, why have you been playing this game for 3 entire days???)
But, on the other hand, if everything is explorable and useable, then the core gameplay can rapidly degenerate as the player starts to feel like he must check every box-bag-barrel-crate-chest, pick up every item, explore every nook-cranny-crack-hole, etc. This is a major issue in the Elder Scrolls games, particularly Morrowind and Oblivion. E.g. the main plot is long forgotten because you've spent the last 5 days poking around in every single random cave and dungeon in some obscure corner of the world and you don't even know where you are anymore. You've picked every weed, flower, and fungi within 50 square miles. Then, wondering why you can barely move, you find yourself with a collection of 12 candles, 7 lanterns, 23 torches, 5 plates, 10 bowls, 13 forks, 9 spoons, 12 butter knives, 23 books, 17 random notes and scrolls, 8 paintings, 2 sculptures, 5 clubs, 13 daggers, 3 swords, 6 staffs, 12 shirts, 11 pants, 19 pairs of shoes, 73 random Potions of Dubious Usefulness, 23 pieces of jewelry (also of Dubious Usefulness, e.g. one casts light in a 5 foot radius for 3 seconds. But hey, it might come in handy some time!), 18 heads of lettuce, 12 onions, 13 random pieces of fruit, 1 Salad Shooter, 4 moldy cheeses, 7 bags of grain/flour/mystery substance, 2 sets of plate armor, 4 sets of leather/mail armor, 7 bows, 397 arrows, 58 lock picks... ad nauseum/infinitum. All this stuff picked up, just because you could! Ok, so yeah, it's your own fault if you spend all your time gathering junk, but sometimes it's not clear that you're supposed to be doing anything else.
My point is, there should be good balance: Places, but not too many places, with stuff, but not too much stuff.
And if there's supposed to be some sort of over-arching story or plot, make sure you poke the player with it on a regular basis -- provide relevant clues, items, encounters, etc. -- so they don't forget why they are playing the game in the first place! =)
@Gareth: Left 4 Dead is fantastic! Love that game! (Anyone that hasn't played L4D yet, get it -- you will not be disappointed! Yes, it's that good!) =)
The concept of an AI Director would be huge for any RPG -- perhaps not for an entire world, but at the very least for controlling the dungeons or random events/encounters. I mean, even the Diablo games did a passable job here; take it to the level of L4D's AI Director, and wow, you'd have some hella cool RPG gaming on your hands! =D
Could not agree more! I'm especially annoyed when I'm blocked by the obvious invisible wall! And then there's the latest fad of just outright killing the player if he strays outside the "mission area"... Meh.
Designers! Be more creative than that! Cliffs work pretty well, or pools of lava, or... use whatever as long as it makes some sense within the context of the game world. Invisible walls do not make sense. Ever. And killing the player for no other reason than he wanted to see what was over the hill -- No, it's never cool and we will hate you passionately for it!
And don't put doors in and not let the player interacted with them - especially in a RPG! In the real world, locks can be picked, doors can be kicked down, or hacked open... Unless we're from some Bornean society that lives in door-less huts made out of leaves, we're naturally going to want to open doors when we see them. So, designers, don't even bother putting a door there if you can't come up with something to put behind it!
Ok, now that that's been said...
LateWhiteRabbit said, "...it is better to have a smaller RPG world where everything is explorable and useable than a giant epic map with fake doors and vast stretches of wilderness."
I agree, but of course there's a very fine balance here and you can easily go overboard in either direction...
On the one hand, if you've been wandering around for 3 days on the Plains of Utter Flatness, with nothing to show but a sharp stick, a loincloth, and 3 copper pieces, then obviously you are fully within your rights to feel bored! (Actually, why have you been playing this game for 3 entire days???)
But, on the other hand, if everything is explorable and useable, then the core gameplay can rapidly degenerate as the player starts to feel like he must check every box-bag-barrel-crate-chest, pick up every item, explore every nook-cranny-crack-hole, etc. This is a major issue in the Elder Scrolls games, particularly Morrowind and Oblivion. E.g. the main plot is long forgotten because you've spent the last 5 days poking around in every single random cave and dungeon in some obscure corner of the world and you don't even know where you are anymore. You've picked every weed, flower, and fungi within 50 square miles. Then, wondering why you can barely move, you find yourself with a collection of 12 candles, 7 lanterns, 23 torches, 5 plates, 10 bowls, 13 forks, 9 spoons, 12 butter knives, 23 books, 17 random notes and scrolls, 8 paintings, 2 sculptures, 5 clubs, 13 daggers, 3 swords, 6 staffs, 12 shirts, 11 pants, 19 pairs of shoes, 73 random Potions of Dubious Usefulness, 23 pieces of jewelry (also of Dubious Usefulness, e.g. one casts light in a 5 foot radius for 3 seconds. But hey, it might come in handy some time!), 18 heads of lettuce, 12 onions, 13 random pieces of fruit, 1 Salad Shooter, 4 moldy cheeses, 7 bags of grain/flour/mystery substance, 2 sets of plate armor, 4 sets of leather/mail armor, 7 bows, 397 arrows, 58 lock picks... ad nauseum/infinitum. All this stuff picked up, just because you could! Ok, so yeah, it's your own fault if you spend all your time gathering junk, but sometimes it's not clear that you're supposed to be doing anything else.
My point is, there should be good balance: Places, but not too many places, with stuff, but not too much stuff.
And if there's supposed to be some sort of over-arching story or plot, make sure you poke the player with it on a regular basis -- provide relevant clues, items, encounters, etc. -- so they don't forget why they are playing the game in the first place! =)
@Gareth: Left 4 Dead is fantastic! Love that game! (Anyone that hasn't played L4D yet, get it -- you will not be disappointed! Yes, it's that good!) =)
The concept of an AI Director would be huge for any RPG -- perhaps not for an entire world, but at the very least for controlling the dungeons or random events/encounters. I mean, even the Diablo games did a passable job here; take it to the level of L4D's AI Director, and wow, you'd have some hella cool RPG gaming on your hands! =D
About smaller, but more detailed areas:
I'm all for it! You see, I play a lot of Thief fan missions and the more detailed they are, the smaller they come (the engine apparently has certain limits). The advantage is IMHO that you immerse yourself with that world much better.
In the 80ies even Ultimas were advertised with "map twice as large" or similar wording. I don't really find this appealing and prefer games that offer me twice as much interesting things to do. On Ultima 7 which I love, too, they found the right balance, IMHO.
About the "stuff collecting" in Oblivion etc.:
One can pretty quickly discover the items with the best weight/value-ratio and ignore all those kitchen stuff etc.
Also, one doesn't need to do everything oneself: I for one ignored all the mushrooms and potion mixing and stuff - I had way enough money for buying potions by selling glass and Daedra swords.
As for these things mixing up the plot/story:
Of course there is a certain risk but it's up to the judgement of the player. If he wants to collect all houses in Oblivion he should be able to go for it. If he wants to follow the storyline - fine!
If a game only wants to provide a streamlined story and no "sandbox land" it will find its customers, too, but you cannot please everybody.
I'm all for it! You see, I play a lot of Thief fan missions and the more detailed they are, the smaller they come (the engine apparently has certain limits). The advantage is IMHO that you immerse yourself with that world much better.
In the 80ies even Ultimas were advertised with "map twice as large" or similar wording. I don't really find this appealing and prefer games that offer me twice as much interesting things to do. On Ultima 7 which I love, too, they found the right balance, IMHO.
About the "stuff collecting" in Oblivion etc.:
One can pretty quickly discover the items with the best weight/value-ratio and ignore all those kitchen stuff etc.
Also, one doesn't need to do everything oneself: I for one ignored all the mushrooms and potion mixing and stuff - I had way enough money for buying potions by selling glass and Daedra swords.
As for these things mixing up the plot/story:
Of course there is a certain risk but it's up to the judgement of the player. If he wants to collect all houses in Oblivion he should be able to go for it. If he wants to follow the storyline - fine!
If a game only wants to provide a streamlined story and no "sandbox land" it will find its customers, too, but you cannot please everybody.
2D / Isometric certainly would make it much easier , I've no doubt of that. Especially from a programming perspective.
And yes - I agree that Ultima VII seemed to strike a near-perfect balance. Alas, for all its virtues, Wizardry 8 gets pretty ... barren.
Indigostatic - I was actually paranoid about going overboard with the dialog. Some initial reports seemed to complain (or at least caution) against that, but since then it sounds like most people wanted more. Go figger.
And there IS a tutorial in the game now for the Drama Stars - I guess I missed it in the pilot release.
It's interesting that the town seemed big. Building it, it seemed small, but once I got into it, it also felt kinda ... big. The trick there, too, is depth complexity in the 3D scene. Too many buildings too close together (with attendant details and NPCs) can cause a PC to whine and chug.
And yes - I agree that Ultima VII seemed to strike a near-perfect balance. Alas, for all its virtues, Wizardry 8 gets pretty ... barren.
Indigostatic - I was actually paranoid about going overboard with the dialog. Some initial reports seemed to complain (or at least caution) against that, but since then it sounds like most people wanted more. Go figger.
And there IS a tutorial in the game now for the Drama Stars - I guess I missed it in the pilot release.
It's interesting that the town seemed big. Building it, it seemed small, but once I got into it, it also felt kinda ... big. The trick there, too, is depth complexity in the 3D scene. Too many buildings too close together (with attendant details and NPCs) can cause a PC to whine and chug.
When I hear the word exploration in context of RPG, I think about Might And Magic Trilogy (III, IV, V) and Swords of Xeen. These were the games where you really explored the world, just like you said:
"Over every hill, across every lake there was and adventure or mystery to be solved. Am I strong enough to go there? Am I worthy, yet?"
Only Fallout 1 an 2 (of the games I know) got close to this. What's common to this, otherwise very different, series is free exploration and consequences of it. You may cross the mountains but are you ready to fight Yeti or mutants? And you see, nobody made an invisible wall for you. You made one yourself and you'll jump over it whenever you feel ready. That's free exploration, not mindless, not meaningless, just free.
"Over every hill, across every lake there was and adventure or mystery to be solved. Am I strong enough to go there? Am I worthy, yet?"
Only Fallout 1 an 2 (of the games I know) got close to this. What's common to this, otherwise very different, series is free exploration and consequences of it. You may cross the mountains but are you ready to fight Yeti or mutants? And you see, nobody made an invisible wall for you. You made one yourself and you'll jump over it whenever you feel ready. That's free exploration, not mindless, not meaningless, just free.
Personally, exploration is very important to me in RPGs, and I derive great satisfaction from discovering not just interesting man-made (or sentient-made or whatever) places but interesting environments. And yeah, I know, it's a pain in the ass to invest effort in a neat lost temple or a beautiful tarn tucked away in the mountains that half your player base will never find. I'm 99% certain at least some of the suggestions I'm going to throw out you already know or even mentioned explicitly in your Wizardry 8 posts, but here goes:
1)Smaller is indeed better, and how -much- smaller I'd argue is a function of a lot of little things like combat density and movement speed and even where the camera is.
2)If there's an artificial structure, have SOME sort of backstory for it linking it to the world. I cringe saying this because it seems so blindingly obvious, but it's something so many RPG designers seem to overlook. To use a type example, I'll pick "Fort/Fortress/Keep" as a structure type and compare Oblivion and Tolkien. In Oblivion, you have about three or four dozen "imperial fort" dungeons, but they're scattered all over the province without any real thought to what they were guarding and why. Were they there to provide a base of operations for patrolling the roads? Do they mark waves of successive expansion of the empire? Are they the byproduct of the Cyrodilian(sp?) equivalent of Ludwig II of Bavaria, an emperor who just REALLY liked forts? We don't know, really, we just know "they're imperial and they're old".
Tolkien on the other hand has a lot of towers and keeps and what-not, and actually has a reason for every one. To keep this entry short I'm not going to discuss them, but from Amon Hen/Sul to Isengard to Minas Anor/Ithil to Dol Guldur to Cirith Ungol, every one of his keeps and watch-towers and ruined fortresses has a history that establishes not only when it was built and by who, but WHY it was built and why it was built WHERE it was built.
3) This one's tricky, but having the world react to the main plot's events even when you're not on the main plot track really adds a sense of reality to the proceedings. Also, having stories (not necessarily BIG ones) that play out away from the main plot helps. I'm going to use Betrayal at Krondor to illustrate what I mean because the way it straddles linear and open-world RPG design intrigues me and because I've been replaying it recently.
In BAK, the main plot is split into "Chapters", and as a result you will find different situations in the same place depending on what chapter you visit that place in. For example, in Chapter 1 visiting the major trade town of Romney you find that there's trouble brewing between the guilds, and a major NPC warns you to keep out. In Chapter 2, the situation has escalated and one of the chapter's main puzzles is figuring out how to get into town after it's been sealed off. From Chapter 3 onward the Duke's returned and halted the guild war but as a result the town's economy is stagnating and prices are at several hundred percent of normal until you take a sidequest from the Duke to bring a guild master to the negotiating table and end the disputes. This is not directly related to the main quest, but if you investigate and ask around you can find out that the incidents that provoked the all out guild war were the work of people working for the game's antagonist.
In another thread of the game, the main plot point is an invasion of the kingdom by the moredhel (dark elves, basically) of the north. If you visit the northern border of the kingdom early in the game you'll find sidequests asking you to scout the passes for raiding parties that might be carrying intelligence telling the local nobles where to expect the main thrust of the invasion. Later on, one chapter is locked into the region preparing for the invasion, and the next chapter you control a party in a different part of the world, and can't go to that region because it's a war zone.
That's a bit rambling, but my point is that if you visit an area in "Chapter 1" and then go back in "Chapter 5", different things will be happening. The people and places there will reflect the passage of time and of the main plot.
I don't know how you'd do that outside a strict "chapter" structure, but there are plenty of games that play with timed events like this on a smaller scale, so I would think the main issue is the effort in writing new dialogues/quests/encounters/whatever to reflect the changes.
1)Smaller is indeed better, and how -much- smaller I'd argue is a function of a lot of little things like combat density and movement speed and even where the camera is.
2)If there's an artificial structure, have SOME sort of backstory for it linking it to the world. I cringe saying this because it seems so blindingly obvious, but it's something so many RPG designers seem to overlook. To use a type example, I'll pick "Fort/Fortress/Keep" as a structure type and compare Oblivion and Tolkien. In Oblivion, you have about three or four dozen "imperial fort" dungeons, but they're scattered all over the province without any real thought to what they were guarding and why. Were they there to provide a base of operations for patrolling the roads? Do they mark waves of successive expansion of the empire? Are they the byproduct of the Cyrodilian(sp?) equivalent of Ludwig II of Bavaria, an emperor who just REALLY liked forts? We don't know, really, we just know "they're imperial and they're old".
Tolkien on the other hand has a lot of towers and keeps and what-not, and actually has a reason for every one. To keep this entry short I'm not going to discuss them, but from Amon Hen/Sul to Isengard to Minas Anor/Ithil to Dol Guldur to Cirith Ungol, every one of his keeps and watch-towers and ruined fortresses has a history that establishes not only when it was built and by who, but WHY it was built and why it was built WHERE it was built.
3) This one's tricky, but having the world react to the main plot's events even when you're not on the main plot track really adds a sense of reality to the proceedings. Also, having stories (not necessarily BIG ones) that play out away from the main plot helps. I'm going to use Betrayal at Krondor to illustrate what I mean because the way it straddles linear and open-world RPG design intrigues me and because I've been replaying it recently.
In BAK, the main plot is split into "Chapters", and as a result you will find different situations in the same place depending on what chapter you visit that place in. For example, in Chapter 1 visiting the major trade town of Romney you find that there's trouble brewing between the guilds, and a major NPC warns you to keep out. In Chapter 2, the situation has escalated and one of the chapter's main puzzles is figuring out how to get into town after it's been sealed off. From Chapter 3 onward the Duke's returned and halted the guild war but as a result the town's economy is stagnating and prices are at several hundred percent of normal until you take a sidequest from the Duke to bring a guild master to the negotiating table and end the disputes. This is not directly related to the main quest, but if you investigate and ask around you can find out that the incidents that provoked the all out guild war were the work of people working for the game's antagonist.
In another thread of the game, the main plot point is an invasion of the kingdom by the moredhel (dark elves, basically) of the north. If you visit the northern border of the kingdom early in the game you'll find sidequests asking you to scout the passes for raiding parties that might be carrying intelligence telling the local nobles where to expect the main thrust of the invasion. Later on, one chapter is locked into the region preparing for the invasion, and the next chapter you control a party in a different part of the world, and can't go to that region because it's a war zone.
That's a bit rambling, but my point is that if you visit an area in "Chapter 1" and then go back in "Chapter 5", different things will be happening. The people and places there will reflect the passage of time and of the main plot.
I don't know how you'd do that outside a strict "chapter" structure, but there are plenty of games that play with timed events like this on a smaller scale, so I would think the main issue is the effort in writing new dialogues/quests/encounters/whatever to reflect the changes.
# posted by : February 14, 2009 3:03 AM
: February 14, 2009 3:03 AM
I absolutely agree that exploration is critical. And I've actually been playing Oblivion recently, after a gap of about a year.
I've completed only some of the main quest, and some of the fighters guild and mage guild quests, because I spend most of my time just wandering around, exploring. I love the huge, open world, and I like the fact that I don't have to fight a long battle every two steps. I sneak through the wilderness with my bow, and I can even avoid most creatures. I even like collecting alchemy ingredients from plants along the way.
I enjoy the ruins, caves, mines, etc. scattered everywhere, too. But I'd much prefer stumbling across mini-stories as I wander. This does happen, but not very often - not often enough. Even the bandits infesting many of these places don't seem to be there for any reason of their own.
But I do prefer a huge world that's open to random exploration. Of course, this means a huge expense of creating all that scenery, too. I can understand a developer who'd prefer to create a smaller, more structured world. Nothing else might be cost-effective.
I've completed only some of the main quest, and some of the fighters guild and mage guild quests, because I spend most of my time just wandering around, exploring. I love the huge, open world, and I like the fact that I don't have to fight a long battle every two steps. I sneak through the wilderness with my bow, and I can even avoid most creatures. I even like collecting alchemy ingredients from plants along the way.
I enjoy the ruins, caves, mines, etc. scattered everywhere, too. But I'd much prefer stumbling across mini-stories as I wander. This does happen, but not very often - not often enough. Even the bandits infesting many of these places don't seem to be there for any reason of their own.
But I do prefer a huge world that's open to random exploration. Of course, this means a huge expense of creating all that scenery, too. I can understand a developer who'd prefer to create a smaller, more structured world. Nothing else might be cost-effective.
Is a lot of exploration a must in RPGs? Absolutely not in my opinion, but it can be enjoyable if done right. I think fun and meaningful RPG exploration can be kept relatively simple but should always include some tangible, strictly gameplay-related reward.
The classic example here is the treasure chest hidden away at the end of a relatively simple, unadorned corridor down which the player wasn't required to go in the first place. It's nothing fancy - and it's almost identical to countless other unadorned corridors with treasure chests at the end of them - but it does provide the player with instant gratification; thus immediately rewarding him or her for taking more time to explore the game world than is strictly necessary to finish the game.
For example, "Wizardry 8" does this "treasure chest" aspect of exploration very well, by ensuring that there's always something to be gained - whether through finding actual treasure chests or spotting hidden things lying around - from straying off the beaten path. Thus, it's not the size or complexity of W8's game world that matters but the fact that the there's always some useful item to be found around the next corner, no matter how unremarkable and nondescript that actual location might be.
By contrast, exploration which only yields some form of story exposition or anything similarly immaterial (elaborate descriptions, detailed scenery etc.) is something which I think is only worthwile in very story-heavy games (like "Planescape Torment" and the IF genre).
To me, the obvious example of pointless exploration would be the many towns and villages in JRPGs where there are numerous houses which can be entered but which often only contains a few villagers saying very uninteresting things and no other interactive objects whatsoever. It just feels like a complete waste of time to me, no matter how much hard work went into making these locations as realistic and graphically detailed as possible.
The classic example here is the treasure chest hidden away at the end of a relatively simple, unadorned corridor down which the player wasn't required to go in the first place. It's nothing fancy - and it's almost identical to countless other unadorned corridors with treasure chests at the end of them - but it does provide the player with instant gratification; thus immediately rewarding him or her for taking more time to explore the game world than is strictly necessary to finish the game.
For example, "Wizardry 8" does this "treasure chest" aspect of exploration very well, by ensuring that there's always something to be gained - whether through finding actual treasure chests or spotting hidden things lying around - from straying off the beaten path. Thus, it's not the size or complexity of W8's game world that matters but the fact that the there's always some useful item to be found around the next corner, no matter how unremarkable and nondescript that actual location might be.
By contrast, exploration which only yields some form of story exposition or anything similarly immaterial (elaborate descriptions, detailed scenery etc.) is something which I think is only worthwile in very story-heavy games (like "Planescape Torment" and the IF genre).
To me, the obvious example of pointless exploration would be the many towns and villages in JRPGs where there are numerous houses which can be entered but which often only contains a few villagers saying very uninteresting things and no other interactive objects whatsoever. It just feels like a complete waste of time to me, no matter how much hard work went into making these locations as realistic and graphically detailed as possible.
That's very interesting, Demiath, because I see things almost exactly the opposite. I find a treasure chest at the end of a corridor to be way too artificial. Too often, treasure chests are scattered here and there with absolutely no rhyme or reason. That tends to ruin the whole experience of exploration for me. (I'd prefer to explore a realistic kitchen, midden, bedroom, etc., even without any particularly useful loot to be found.)
On the other hand, I'll explore forever if I keep finding neat locations, beautiful scenery, new stories, or interesting NPC's. I really don't care if I get any loot or experience out of it. I want the exploration to be rewarding in itself.
I do agree that it's not much fun exploring cookie-cutter towns with nondescript villagers who all say the same few phrases. But I will gladly explore such towns if they are architecturally unique, or have villagers with interesting stories, especially if I can do something there (help the villagers, solve a puzzle, learn something new, etc.). It doesn't have to be much, but villages need to be individual, different in some way.
On the other hand, I'll explore forever if I keep finding neat locations, beautiful scenery, new stories, or interesting NPC's. I really don't care if I get any loot or experience out of it. I want the exploration to be rewarding in itself.
I do agree that it's not much fun exploring cookie-cutter towns with nondescript villagers who all say the same few phrases. But I will gladly explore such towns if they are architecturally unique, or have villagers with interesting stories, especially if I can do something there (help the villagers, solve a puzzle, learn something new, etc.). It doesn't have to be much, but villages need to be individual, different in some way.
Wow, I love this discussion =)
@xenovore: (paraphrasing)
"If you have a lot of content the player is going to forget about the main plot."
Mmmmhhh, I don't agree with that one.
The reason why you forget about the main plot is because there are all these activities that don't have anything to do with the main plot.
"Please help me, my daughter fell into a well" makes you forget about the plot, "Please help me, the main villain murdered my son and almost drowned my daughter in the well" ties the main plot with the sidequest. Granted, not every sidequest needs to be so tied to the main plot. If the villain caused an earthquake, then it's only natural to have some sidequests dealing with the results of said catastrophe.
You have to consider that all the places and all the people are connected. If you design the RPG this way, then the player is going to be hard pressed to not remember the atrocities that happened as well as the happy moments.
For example, it would be wise to have conversations between the party members discussing previous happenings. "This box reminds me of the day I slayed that dragon single-handedly. - Would you drop that story already? We were there you know. Besides, it was a BABY dragon."
In Frayed Knights, after the first dungeon some party members are ... unhappy about someone sleeping with someone else, so this better show up in random conversations after the fact (not randomly triggered mind you).
The events happened, so people should at least seem to remember them.
@xenovore: (paraphrasing)
"If you have a lot of content the player is going to forget about the main plot."
Mmmmhhh, I don't agree with that one.
The reason why you forget about the main plot is because there are all these activities that don't have anything to do with the main plot.
"Please help me, my daughter fell into a well" makes you forget about the plot, "Please help me, the main villain murdered my son and almost drowned my daughter in the well" ties the main plot with the sidequest. Granted, not every sidequest needs to be so tied to the main plot. If the villain caused an earthquake, then it's only natural to have some sidequests dealing with the results of said catastrophe.
You have to consider that all the places and all the people are connected. If you design the RPG this way, then the player is going to be hard pressed to not remember the atrocities that happened as well as the happy moments.
For example, it would be wise to have conversations between the party members discussing previous happenings. "This box reminds me of the day I slayed that dragon single-handedly. - Would you drop that story already? We were there you know. Besides, it was a BABY dragon."
In Frayed Knights, after the first dungeon some party members are ... unhappy about someone sleeping with someone else, so this better show up in random conversations after the fact (not randomly triggered mind you).
The events happened, so people should at least seem to remember them.
The part I find most enjoyable is that everything is significant. It doesn't have to be a lot of stuff to explore, but everything I find should have some story or logic behind it. Ideally, you'd be able to meet Linneaus' Tolkein/Morrowind comparison. There don't really have to be many fortresses/dungeons/etc, so long as each has some story attached to it. That made the debris in the Pokmar entry hall really appeal to me - everything made sense, including why the party wasn't interesting in looting all the trash.
I wouldn't mind leaving in some of the unopenable doors and such, but maybe attach a reason to them? In real life, you don't go barging into everyone's house - it's rude, and dangerous. Maybe if the party believes in that social norm, and tells you so if you try to perform a home invasion? Maybe Dirk remembers a time 20 years ago when a frightened housewife pinned his hand to the door with a crossbow?
I may be atypical here, but I don't find exploration for the sake of exploration interesting. What I enjoy is discovering the interesting parts, and if you block me or warn me off from the boring parts, I'll thank you for it. To take your apes example, I'd be happy if you took the original module, upgraded maybe a quarter of the encounters, and deleted the rest.
One last thought from D&D - at some point, running into yet another patrol of orcs the party can handily smash, the DM starts saying 'a patrol finds you, you beat them without breaking a sweat, what do you want to do next?' Feeling heroic in a wondrous world as at least as much about skipping the boring parts as finding the interesting parts - same reason there aren't any rules for bathroom breaks.
I wouldn't mind leaving in some of the unopenable doors and such, but maybe attach a reason to them? In real life, you don't go barging into everyone's house - it's rude, and dangerous. Maybe if the party believes in that social norm, and tells you so if you try to perform a home invasion? Maybe Dirk remembers a time 20 years ago when a frightened housewife pinned his hand to the door with a crossbow?
I may be atypical here, but I don't find exploration for the sake of exploration interesting. What I enjoy is discovering the interesting parts, and if you block me or warn me off from the boring parts, I'll thank you for it. To take your apes example, I'd be happy if you took the original module, upgraded maybe a quarter of the encounters, and deleted the rest.
One last thought from D&D - at some point, running into yet another patrol of orcs the party can handily smash, the DM starts saying 'a patrol finds you, you beat them without breaking a sweat, what do you want to do next?' Feeling heroic in a wondrous world as at least as much about skipping the boring parts as finding the interesting parts - same reason there aren't any rules for bathroom breaks.
Glad to see that you are still working on this. Exploration is #1 for me and I'm glad that someone else out there feels the same.
I was a huge nerd as a kid (still am), and was always reading books about animals, bugs, plants, unusual landscapes, etc... Always examining any sort of creepy crawly I could find, and dreaming of exploring other planets and learning about their flora, fauna, cultures, landscapes, etc. I got into drawing because I wanted to invent my own creatures and worlds. I got into video games because I enjoyed exploring the worlds created by others. And I would like to get into the game biz so that I can help craft worlds for others to explore. Exploration is what its all about for me.
A big incentive to explore is an avoidance of cliches. A world of white, medieval-Europe castles, in pretty green fields populated by Elves is completely uninteresting and I have no motivation to learn about this world. I have not played Oblivion in part because my machine is a little too old to run it well, but also because it seems to fall into this cliche high-fantasy style. More so than its predecessor, Morrowind, which I enjoyed quite a bit. Don't know if you've tried that one. Its landscape was comprised of swamps, deserts and "ashlands" with constant dust-storms... Its inhabitants were nasty towards you and other outsiders or "outlanders" and they call them. They wore clothing/armor comprised partially of bug carapaces, and often wore goggled masks. Some of their dwellings were made of giant bug segments, and they used giant, stilt-legged flea-shaped creatures as transportation. The world had a harsh alien feel to it, and there were aggressive as well as passive fauna that were unique to this world.
I realize that the whole idea behind your game is to poke fun at cliches, so I'm not sure how relevant or applicable all of this is. You can't be too unique/otherworldly with your designs in your case. From what I've seen though, you have some wonderfully bizarre and humorous bits in your game - like the chicken-leg eating pimple god. Your mockery of the typical cookie cutter god of evilness/darkness/unholiness/whatever is actually a refreshing change!
Asherons Call is also a huge influence on me. Its an old school MMO that is actually still up and running. If you haven't played it, maybe give the free trial a go. Its completely open ended and promotes exploration. You are held back only if you can not defeat or outrun/evade the increasing difficulty of the creatures. No invisible walls here. There are also no elves, dragons, dwarves, etc.
In terms of adding items to make an area more interesting, I like it when the items are somewhat lore-based and add some depth to the area. In a lot of the Morrowind caves there were these little idols/statues that you'd find associated with the evil gods or whatever they were. They'd be laying around or you'd find them on the corpses of your enemies. There were also these racks of bells, about 9 bells on them I think. And there was always a large ornate hammer propped up against it (for ringing the bells I'd assume). I think the 9 bells may have been for each of the 9 gods? Can't remember. Just little set pieces that pique your curiosity and add some mythology.
Treasure is also a motivator for exploration for me. I always liked in Asherons Call when you'd kill a creature and it would end up dropping a horn, tongue, carapace, hide, whatever... and you could do something with it. Some creatures would also drop notes, books, creature-specific weapons. You could do a lot with treasure in the zit god's lair. Maybe one of the payoff's for exploring the lair is that there is a sweet dagger somewhere in there. Maybe the dagger is used by the baddies for popping zits to collect the puss for use in... something? Or maybe the dagger was forged by some ancient hero out of the only material that can puncture the zit-gods zits and drain his powers, and his minions stole it and locked it away to keep him safe. Maybe they burn or boil some special herb here that makes a horrible stench. Eat it and you stink for a while. Don a robe looted from a henchman and now you smell AND look like them. Lets you sneak past the puss-dog-toads guarding the dagger. I dunno. I just like it when items and loot are related to the area or creature. Now I'm rambling...
Have to admit I haven't tried your game yet. Maybe I'll go download now!
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I was a huge nerd as a kid (still am), and was always reading books about animals, bugs, plants, unusual landscapes, etc... Always examining any sort of creepy crawly I could find, and dreaming of exploring other planets and learning about their flora, fauna, cultures, landscapes, etc. I got into drawing because I wanted to invent my own creatures and worlds. I got into video games because I enjoyed exploring the worlds created by others. And I would like to get into the game biz so that I can help craft worlds for others to explore. Exploration is what its all about for me.
A big incentive to explore is an avoidance of cliches. A world of white, medieval-Europe castles, in pretty green fields populated by Elves is completely uninteresting and I have no motivation to learn about this world. I have not played Oblivion in part because my machine is a little too old to run it well, but also because it seems to fall into this cliche high-fantasy style. More so than its predecessor, Morrowind, which I enjoyed quite a bit. Don't know if you've tried that one. Its landscape was comprised of swamps, deserts and "ashlands" with constant dust-storms... Its inhabitants were nasty towards you and other outsiders or "outlanders" and they call them. They wore clothing/armor comprised partially of bug carapaces, and often wore goggled masks. Some of their dwellings were made of giant bug segments, and they used giant, stilt-legged flea-shaped creatures as transportation. The world had a harsh alien feel to it, and there were aggressive as well as passive fauna that were unique to this world.
I realize that the whole idea behind your game is to poke fun at cliches, so I'm not sure how relevant or applicable all of this is. You can't be too unique/otherworldly with your designs in your case. From what I've seen though, you have some wonderfully bizarre and humorous bits in your game - like the chicken-leg eating pimple god. Your mockery of the typical cookie cutter god of evilness/darkness/unholiness/whatever is actually a refreshing change!
Asherons Call is also a huge influence on me. Its an old school MMO that is actually still up and running. If you haven't played it, maybe give the free trial a go. Its completely open ended and promotes exploration. You are held back only if you can not defeat or outrun/evade the increasing difficulty of the creatures. No invisible walls here. There are also no elves, dragons, dwarves, etc.
In terms of adding items to make an area more interesting, I like it when the items are somewhat lore-based and add some depth to the area. In a lot of the Morrowind caves there were these little idols/statues that you'd find associated with the evil gods or whatever they were. They'd be laying around or you'd find them on the corpses of your enemies. There were also these racks of bells, about 9 bells on them I think. And there was always a large ornate hammer propped up against it (for ringing the bells I'd assume). I think the 9 bells may have been for each of the 9 gods? Can't remember. Just little set pieces that pique your curiosity and add some mythology.
Treasure is also a motivator for exploration for me. I always liked in Asherons Call when you'd kill a creature and it would end up dropping a horn, tongue, carapace, hide, whatever... and you could do something with it. Some creatures would also drop notes, books, creature-specific weapons. You could do a lot with treasure in the zit god's lair. Maybe one of the payoff's for exploring the lair is that there is a sweet dagger somewhere in there. Maybe the dagger is used by the baddies for popping zits to collect the puss for use in... something? Or maybe the dagger was forged by some ancient hero out of the only material that can puncture the zit-gods zits and drain his powers, and his minions stole it and locked it away to keep him safe. Maybe they burn or boil some special herb here that makes a horrible stench. Eat it and you stink for a while. Don a robe looted from a henchman and now you smell AND look like them. Lets you sneak past the puss-dog-toads guarding the dagger. I dunno. I just like it when items and loot are related to the area or creature. Now I'm rambling...
Have to admit I haven't tried your game yet. Maybe I'll go download now!
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