Wednesday, October 15, 2008
Reminiscing Ultima
Yesterday, we were talking on the forums about RPGs we love and how we'd like to see "more games like that." And that caused a question to come up about *what* specific elements made our favorite RPGs our favorite. I was considering asking the question of the original poster, Daringly, as he was looking for more games "like" Wizardry 8 and some of the Ultima games.
DGM put the question to me. What made Ultima VII - still my favorite RPG - so awesome for me. My answer sucked. I listed some of the features that really struck me then --- and still do now. But the features alone didn't make the magic that I'd love to recapture. Much of it is probably just in my head (and in my equipped +2 Rose-Tinted Glasses of Nostalgia), but the question really made me think.
I was blown away by Ultima VII's technology when it was first released in 1992 - much as I had been by Ultima Underworld, released at approximately the same time. It still took me a while to complete it - mostly because I'd gotten distracted by Ultima Underworld.
The last quarter of the game was completed in a single sitting, the day after I'd gotten my kneecap Knocked out of position at a... er... sporting event in the park the night before. I was on crutches, didn't go anywhere but to the doctor, and the only escape from the throbbing pain in my knee (and lack of mobility) was into Britannia. And while the game had been rivetting before, having the ability to dive in like that and spend about eight hours playing straight through was an incredible experience.
When it was over, I felt a sense of loss. Was that all the world offered? In desperation, I called a friend, who had recently purchased the Complete Ultima Collection (or something like that), and out of compassion he came by after dinner and dropped it off for me. I installed Ultima IV, hoping for more. I'd played it years earlier on my Commodore 64, but I'd never completed it. I knew he seven-year-old graphics had not aged well (and they certainly hadn't), and for the first couple of hours they were a distraction.
Then I forgot about the graphics and found myself immersed once more. Not quite as completely as I had in Ultima VII, but enough. Two weeks later, I had finally brought the Codex back from the Underworld, and completed the Quest of the Avatar. By then my knee was passibly healed and I only had a slight limp. I returned my friend his Ultima collection.
So now, trying to look back and figure what it was that made the game work for me. To be perfectly honest, being unable to walk for a day and do much other than play Ultima VII for an entire day to finish the game probably had a fair share to do with it. It left me with a good feeling - well, except for my knee. And that feeling is probably why it remains my favorite. That's a really tough thing to capture in a design document, let alone a game.
So where do we start?
Distilling all my ideas down, it really comes down to a compelling world - which includes everything from graphics and interactivity to plot and character. The elements in my mind which contributed to the success of Ultima VII for me included:
* Deep conversation trees that showed personality for the tons of characters, not just exposition
* NPC scripting and schedules to make them come alive
* About a gazillion items
* Interactivity with objects in the world rarely seen in a single-player RPG
* A ton of *stuff* going on no matter where you went
* A compelling plot
* A kick-butt opening (the murder mystery)
* Great attention to detail in graphics and design (I always think of the cloud shadows on the ground)
* Some outstanding sub-quests that were great stories in their own right
I don't think that's a checklist for a great RPG - I don't think you can make one with a checklist - and I think that even if you were to use Exult (the modern, open-source engine that lets you play Ultima VII on modern systems) as a base, the result would probably not live up to the original.
Even Oblivion, had most of these elements, but still came off (to me) a little flat. It may be, to some degree, a limitation of 3D graphics. The realities of depth complexity and the limitations for presenting a 3D interface on a 2D screen may make it impossible to match that level of interactivity. But I'll cut 'em some slack. After all - this has only been their fourth Elder Scrolls RPG. Maybe by the time they hit #7, they'll really hit their stride, too.
I'd like to see more indies on that path, too.
Labels: Game Design, Roleplaying Games
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I strongly agree with this post. Ultima VII (both The Black Gate and Serpent Isle) is definitely my favorite game of all time, second probably only to Ultima VI.
The beginning, the murder mystery / copy protection, wasn't quite my cup of tea, but it's not as much its fault as it was that I knew the world was huge and hated the mayor and his stupid city walls for blocking me from going wherever I wanted to until I finished his quest. The beginning was strong, but not as cool from a story perspective as Ultima VI's abduction by gargoyles and subsequent rescue by the three companions.
The thing that made The Black Gate so awesome was that the world was huge. Not only that, but it had an extremely deep level of detail on all aspects of the game: conversation trees, props items, NPC professions, NPC schedules, books, signs, random locations you can bump into while wondering, quests - everything! They really made a living / breathing world and gave it to the player to explore and enjoy. They did the same thing in Ultima VI, but the new graphics approach and better user interface in VII made the world seem that much more real.
Not only was the world huge and hugely detailed (something Oblivion missed but came close to. Their stuff was mostly limited to random dungeons strewn about - though they got houses and items right), but the details were fun. Every random area or detail was fun for what it was. If you found something random, you'd definitely have fun, maybe encounter a challenge, see something funny, meet someone memorable, or find a rewarding piece of equipment.
Some examples:
I still remember running around in the wilderness in Serpent Isle and encountering a random sign in the middle of nowhere in runic. I wasn't quite up on my runic at that point in the game and translated it letter by letter for a minute or two before coming up with: "Thou art lost".
Wandering a little further I found a small two story hut with a parrot, a pirate flag, and a "rune board" hooked up to a CRT monitor. There was some random anti-pirating message too, but it was a rewarding experience just wandering around.
The plot was awesome (especially in Serpent Isle) and I don't think I've played a game that matched it for depth, fun, and immersiveness.
Anyway, the short of it is, "It's not just you".
The beginning, the murder mystery / copy protection, wasn't quite my cup of tea, but it's not as much its fault as it was that I knew the world was huge and hated the mayor and his stupid city walls for blocking me from going wherever I wanted to until I finished his quest. The beginning was strong, but not as cool from a story perspective as Ultima VI's abduction by gargoyles and subsequent rescue by the three companions.
The thing that made The Black Gate so awesome was that the world was huge. Not only that, but it had an extremely deep level of detail on all aspects of the game: conversation trees, props items, NPC professions, NPC schedules, books, signs, random locations you can bump into while wondering, quests - everything! They really made a living / breathing world and gave it to the player to explore and enjoy. They did the same thing in Ultima VI, but the new graphics approach and better user interface in VII made the world seem that much more real.
Not only was the world huge and hugely detailed (something Oblivion missed but came close to. Their stuff was mostly limited to random dungeons strewn about - though they got houses and items right), but the details were fun. Every random area or detail was fun for what it was. If you found something random, you'd definitely have fun, maybe encounter a challenge, see something funny, meet someone memorable, or find a rewarding piece of equipment.
Some examples:
I still remember running around in the wilderness in Serpent Isle and encountering a random sign in the middle of nowhere in runic. I wasn't quite up on my runic at that point in the game and translated it letter by letter for a minute or two before coming up with: "Thou art lost".
Wandering a little further I found a small two story hut with a parrot, a pirate flag, and a "rune board" hooked up to a CRT monitor. There was some random anti-pirating message too, but it was a rewarding experience just wandering around.
The plot was awesome (especially in Serpent Isle) and I don't think I've played a game that matched it for depth, fun, and immersiveness.
Anyway, the short of it is, "It's not just you".
I loved U6 but really hated U7.
Do I really need to be able to move forks and spoons around and play house? Its great that I can but I'm not in it for the microhouse keeping. But hey, programmers got paid and people loved it.
Anyway, I'm back off to work on my magic candle / ultima 3 / gold box combat engine crpg...
-stu
Do I really need to be able to move forks and spoons around and play house? Its great that I can but I'm not in it for the microhouse keeping. But hey, programmers got paid and people loved it.
Anyway, I'm back off to work on my magic candle / ultima 3 / gold box combat engine crpg...
-stu
How can an indie developer pull off something like that and still get a game out in some reasonable time frame? I think if someone came up with an rpg generator that used generative algorithms to create an instant "game" that you could then tweak and refine, that would be amazing. hrm.
That's the thing, though - it was awesome because so much of it had detail from a designer. Sure, the world was built out of little 8x8 chunks of reusable geography, but the designers specify what triggers, objects, and architecture elements go in those places and stick content in them.
I frankly have no idea how they had such a hugely detailed, coherent, and consistent game world because it seems like it would take ages to build it.
I'd be very interested to see some Ultima VI - VII dev. diaries or design documents if those exist.
I frankly have no idea how they had such a hugely detailed, coherent, and consistent game world because it seems like it would take ages to build it.
I'd be very interested to see some Ultima VI - VII dev. diaries or design documents if those exist.
@Andrew
As was mentioned in the article, this is number 7 in the series. And, that level of interactivity is not necessary for an incredible RPG. Many greats have gotten by with far less. Check Interplay and early Bioware titles, they didn't bother with this, and up until now they were releasing some real good RPG's.
As was mentioned in the article, this is number 7 in the series. And, that level of interactivity is not necessary for an incredible RPG. Many greats have gotten by with far less. Check Interplay and early Bioware titles, they didn't bother with this, and up until now they were releasing some real good RPG's.
The possibility that *I* was thinking of when writing the article is with community support. That's a popular topic with Open Source, but it could go a bit further. I've already gotten some contributions for dialog 'n stuff for Frayed Knights, but I think it might be possible to go a bit further.
What if you used something like a magazine / compilation approach? The developer could act as a "managing editor" and pay a small bounty for content. It would get very hairy, especially since the Internet is full of people who don't seem to understand Intellectual Property laws and will happily submit ripped-off content and call it their own. And for many professionals, it just wouldn't be worth their time. But while $100 for a level like the Temple of Pokmor Xang isn't worth it, for someone who does this for fun, it could be a way to profit from a hobby.
Anyway, just one of a few ideas I was thinking of.
What if you used something like a magazine / compilation approach? The developer could act as a "managing editor" and pay a small bounty for content. It would get very hairy, especially since the Internet is full of people who don't seem to understand Intellectual Property laws and will happily submit ripped-off content and call it their own. And for many professionals, it just wouldn't be worth their time. But while $100 for a level like the Temple of Pokmor Xang isn't worth it, for someone who does this for fun, it could be a way to profit from a hobby.
Anyway, just one of a few ideas I was thinking of.
@Matt
I'd be very interested to see some Ultima VI - VII dev. diaries or design documents if those exist.
The book "game coding complete" was written by one of the Ultima guys and does contain some interesting comments regarding the later games' developement.
Bit of Serpent isles design docs can also be found at the following link, under miscellaneous, "moonshade plot script" and "mad mage plot script".
http://www.bootstrike.com/Ultima7si/cool2.html
I'd be very interested to see some Ultima VI - VII dev. diaries or design documents if those exist.
The book "game coding complete" was written by one of the Ultima guys and does contain some interesting comments regarding the later games' developement.
Bit of Serpent isles design docs can also be found at the following link, under miscellaneous, "moonshade plot script" and "mad mage plot script".
http://www.bootstrike.com/Ultima7si/cool2.html
You can also find them as single-page files here:
http://home.insightbb.com/~chilliedog/Htm/ultima_7_part_2.htm
http://home.insightbb.com/~chilliedog/Htm/ultima_7_part_2.htm
Thanks guys! Those are great. I also caught an old post mentioning "The official book of Ultima" by Shay Addams and ordered a copy (though it only covers up to U6).
One of my favorite books of all time :)
It hints at Ultima VII only at the very end. Though I guess there was a second edition that came out - I don't know if it covered any additional material.
It hints at Ultima VII only at the very end. Though I guess there was a second edition that came out - I don't know if it covered any additional material.
A collaboratively created RPG would be really cool. Everyone could "playtest" everyone else's scenarios, you could have voting for the best characters, situations, etc. It would be kinda like play by mail, only the end result is not a bunch of forum posts, but a playable RPG. Sounds kinda like a MUSH http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUSH only with an end point which is then "published". That would rock like crazy.
What if you used something like a magazine / compilation approach? The developer could act as a "managing editor" and pay a small bounty for content. It would get very hairy, especially since the Internet is full of people who don't seem to understand Intellectual Property laws and will happily submit ripped-off content and call it their own. And for many professionals, it just wouldn't be worth their time. But while $100 for a level like the Temple of Pokmor Xang isn't worth it, for someone who does this for fun, it could be a way to profit from a hobby.
So, Jay, are you suggesting I might actually get paid for helping you out with dialogue and such? Because you know you shouldn't encourage me like this. :)
So, Jay, are you suggesting I might actually get paid for helping you out with dialogue and such? Because you know you shouldn't encourage me like this. :)
DGM - Well, I tried, but with my budget it didn't cover the price of one corner of a stamp, let alone an envelope. :)
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