Monday, July 14, 2008
RPG Dialog Systems - Revisited
"While I'm very fond of full dialogue trees, I believe that the keyword system is the foundation of any evolution of RPG dialogue systems. I would certainly be interested to pick up where Sir Tech left off and see what could be done with this concept. The 'tone interface could be easily tied to speech skills and an Arcanum-like disposition system."
So saith the Indie RPG Designers, Vince Weller and Gareth Fouche.
So say we all.
Well, okay, probably not all. But me. They have a very extensive look at RPG conversation systems, and I gotta admit, the conclusions sound pretty reasonable to me. But I'm one of those scary retro-gamers who actually likes dialog in games, even if I must *gasp* read it myself.
Wizardry 8 gets cited as an example of an unfortunately abandoned evolutionary path that showed a great deal of promise. I've played the demo, but I don't have the full version. I've asked it before, and I'll ask again - does anybody know where I can pick up a reasonably inexpensive copy of Wizardry 8? Checking on Amazon, it looks like I can find a used copy for approximately double its original price. I never thought of computer games as investment-quality collectibles, but hey. If I can find a good-quality used version (with full manuals) for $50 or less, I'd be thrilled.
Labels: Indie Evangelism, Roleplaying Games
- posted by The Rampant Coyote @ 8:22 AM (Permalink)
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Had a quick look on ebay for you
http://cgi.ebay.com/wizardry-8-Sir-Tech-IBM-PC-CD-rom-software_W0QQitemZ120283273169QQihZ002QQcategoryZ11050QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em122
about $10, 9 days left on bidding
http://cgi.ebay.com/wizardry-8-Sir-Tech-IBM-PC-CD-rom-software_W0QQitemZ120283273169QQihZ002QQcategoryZ11050QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em122
about $10, 9 days left on bidding
# posted by 
: July 14, 2008 9:25 AM
: July 14, 2008 9:25 AM
Opps, that completely screwed up the page flow, sorry about that Mr Barnson, just trying to be useful. :)
# posted by : July 14, 2008 9:28 AM
: July 14, 2008 9:28 AM
No worries. Thanks for the link. The last time I checked EBay, the bids were a bit higher. We'll see if I can pick this one up.
As I remember it, the system in Wizardry 8 was pretty much like Morrowind. I liked it, but far more interesting was Wizardy 7. It was the same sort of thing under the hood, where keywords triggered certain responses, but allowed you to type full sentences. "Who are the T'Rang?" as opposed to just "T'Rang" seems far better for role-playing.
I've gone back and re-started Wiz 7. It IS hard for me to go back to typing in keywords, to be honest, but I like the *concept*.
So did Ultima VII - can't remember VII, and I never played the last one. If I recall, VI let you type in the keywords or click on them from the dialog like hot links. Ultima VII was purely menu-based.
Yeah, I meant from a typing standpoint. Should have clarified. U7 was certainly key word based and entirely mouse driven. I seem to recall typing full sentences into U6's interface and it just scanning for keywords within the text. "Tell me about Lord British," and the like.
Wow, I feel awesome for having Wizardry 8 now. B-)
Sometimes I love the dialogue system, and sometimes I get frustrated with it.
When I get a response other than the default "I don't know what you're talking about", it's exciting, and I can actually use my head to figure out where to take the conversation, just like in real life.
When I get "I don't know what you're talking about" for something this person should definitely know or if I can't figure out the correct phrasing, it's frustrating. I had Snooper Troops for the Apple II, and there was a phone that let you call someone to get clues. I never figured out how to type out my questions and get a real response.
But I can't see talking to people in Wizardry 8 using a tree. It's like giving you all of the answers up front, and it leaves you without a puzzle to solve.
Sometimes I love the dialogue system, and sometimes I get frustrated with it.
When I get a response other than the default "I don't know what you're talking about", it's exciting, and I can actually use my head to figure out where to take the conversation, just like in real life.
When I get "I don't know what you're talking about" for something this person should definitely know or if I can't figure out the correct phrasing, it's frustrating. I had Snooper Troops for the Apple II, and there was a phone that let you call someone to get clues. I never figured out how to type out my questions and get a real response.
But I can't see talking to people in Wizardry 8 using a tree. It's like giving you all of the answers up front, and it leaves you without a puzzle to solve.
gbgames said
>> When I get a response other than the default "I don't know what you're talking about", it's exciting, and I can actually use my head to figure out where to take the conversation, just like in real life.
It is nice, and the improvement 8 made over the typing from seven was a big bonus for me. I usually loose my notes, then don't know what to type later on in the game in 7.
BTW, there is the version of Wiz 8 that doesn't come with a manual. I got it new for $20, the manual is on the disc in PDF. If you find this it will probably be a lot cheaper, though having the manual in hand is a nice bonus.
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>> When I get a response other than the default "I don't know what you're talking about", it's exciting, and I can actually use my head to figure out where to take the conversation, just like in real life.
It is nice, and the improvement 8 made over the typing from seven was a big bonus for me. I usually loose my notes, then don't know what to type later on in the game in 7.
BTW, there is the version of Wiz 8 that doesn't come with a manual. I got it new for $20, the manual is on the disc in PDF. If you find this it will probably be a lot cheaper, though having the manual in hand is a nice bonus.
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