Monday, December 24, 2007
RPG Design: Magic Entitlements and Pricetags
I recently picked up "Magic Item Compendium" for Dungeons & Dragons. It's actually a pretty good book, even if much of the material is reprinted from other sources. Since my gaming group isn't on board with the switch to the upcoming 4th edition (which feels, to me, too much like WotC / Hasbro treating customers as credit cards with legs), I figure it'd be a very handy tool for my D&D campaigns for years to come.However, it really pushes a side of the latest version of this game which attempts to mirror the attitude found too often on Massively Multiplayer Online RPGs, and it's something that bugs me. It was present but more subtle in the initial release of D&D 3.0 seven years ago, but it's been gaining steam throughout the supplements and optional material. It's the idea that magical gear - which was once considered (or so I thought) more of a reward - is now an entitlement and considered part of their class balance.
MMO Farming Blues
I first encountered this attitude (much to my consternation) in EverQuest, circa 1999. The design team used the existence of some heavily camped, painful-to-obtain item as a feature that made some class (Rogue? Shadowknight?) balanced with the other classes. Yes, your class COULD be as good as those other classes if you spent 6 hours a day, seven days a week going after some particular non-class-specific weapon for a month or two. Ah, the days of non-instanced dungeons. Take a number, please, to kill rare-spawn monster X who has a 20% chance of having item Y which you are expected to have if you are of class Z. We'll call it a rite of passage or something.
Encounters in MMORPGs were designed - as explained by the designers repeatedly - around the expectation that you were equipped with equipment "appropriate to your level." Now, I never actually saw anyone clearly define what that meant. It seemed to be a sliding scale. At the beginning of the game, it seemed to be geared towards designer expectations. Then it seemed to be built around what the most hardcore players - those get-a-lifers who played for 40+ hours a week - owned. But as less hardcore players leveled up and found the content to be impenetrably hard, the designers scattered easier-to-obtain substitutes for the uber-gear around the world.
But at least they put a bazaar at the end of 2001 where players could trade, which meant you could get all the hand-me-down ubergear without having to quest for it. Now, at last, you only had to spend money in order to get the gear you were expected to own as part of your class.
The MMO Attitude Without the MMO
In 3rd edition D&D, there were hints of this attitude at first. The rules for availability of magic items for purchase, and gold-piece limits for items to sell, for example. There was obviously an expectation that players would be able to buy and sell their magic items with few restrictions. And there was a table of expected gear value for characters at various levels.
More recently, there have been some unofficial nerfing of the dreaded Rust Monster. The justification was the game balance issue: "Simply put, it makes the next encounter prohibitively more difficult. " If you lose your armor and primary weapon to the rust monster, then the ogre in the next room is going to be way harder than he should be. Granted, losing one's equipment to a rust monster has always been more irritating than fun. But it's interesting to see that the rust monster's difficulty level is here being considered not on its own relative merit as a creature, but rather the potential resource expenditure that may result from fighting it, and its impact on future encounters.
But the Magic Item Compendium takes the attitude a step further. First of all, it has an illustration of two fighters trying on different kinds of magical boots in what can only be assumed to be a medieval fantasy equivalent of a Payless Shoes (or maybe the shoe section of a fantasy Wal*Mart). It has new treasure tables that all but guarantee a magical item in every single treasure horde - and also ensures that the equivalent GP value of all "loot" is subject to less random fluctuations.
In explaining why magic items should almost always be available for purchase, the book states: "Most monsters and encounters assume that characters have a certain amount of gear to make the challenge appropriate. Furthermore, at many levels magic items represent a character's only option for customization; picking up a magic ring or bag of potions is significantly more fun than allocating skill points." It repeatedly comments on what the expected equipment should be for characters of various levels.
Unlike EverQuest, at least, it spells out in great detail exactly what that should be.
Putting the Fun Back In
Now, I'll admit - none of this is fundamentally un-fun. I have had characters who identified strongly with a particular magic item (an intelligent sword, for example). I hate losing equipment to rust monsters or other disasters. And as a DM or game designer, I do take all of the characters' anticipated resources into consideration when I plan out an encounter. Even back in 1st edition days, you'd expect a 6th level fighter to have at least a magical +1 sword, if not three (because of rust monsters and stuff, you knew to bring along a backup weapon...)
But I don't feel too comfortable with the attitude in my fantasy RPGs, for a few reasons
- It puts control of magical items in the hands of players instead of the game master / designer, making them entitlements rather than rewards
- It robs magic items of their reward value, turning them instead into simply a more portable form of currency.
- It makes magic commonplace and saps it of any "magicalness," instead turning it into ho-hum fantasy technology.
- It makes things just a little too... I don't know... overly balanced and generic? Instead of encouraging players to be resourceful and to take advantage of odd assortments of weird, spikey items they've picked up in their travels, it encourages them to sell all that and replace that with much more generally-useful (but bland) gear.
Compromise?
I tried to tackle that issue once. But maybe there are some other ways of finding a compromise.
One thing I've tried is to have common items available for sale, but to have a few very specific "rare" items also available. So while the players might be able to find a +2 or even +3 short sword with no difficulty, they get just as excited hearing about +1 Ghost-Touch Shortsword of Frost for sale in the city as if they'd found it in a dragon's hoard.
Another option - which players HATE - is to increase the threat to their equipment. When they encounter creatures that can disarm them, or dissolve their gear, it encourages them to not put all their cash in one or two items. But the player who put almost everything into a shiny new battle axe is gonna be really frustrated when they encounter an earth elemental that specializes in sundering weapons. Most players would rather their characters lose a level than lose a weapon like that, but its an option.
In Computer Worlds
In single-player computer RPGs, there are similar problems that designers should consider.
In a world where magic plate mail routinely drops from a swarm of bugs (*cough*Diablo*cough*), anything short of a certain level of enchantment is going to be disdained by players - or at least kept only for its trade-in value.
A quest for an awesome new sword had better complete with the player in possession of a weapon that is significantly better than the one he used to complete the quest!
Expendable items are routinely undervalued by players and overvalued by designers. The designers tend to value the items based upon their best-use potential... a couple dozen +5 arrows of shocking can really make short work of a particular boss, and at a safe distance! And that potion of invisibility could completely trivialize a key challenge. So he (or she!) will price them appropriately to how much they can influence major encounters, to keep them out of the hands of lower-level characters.
But the player sees the cost of those arrows compared to the price of an "infinite use" bow or sword, and find them very unfavorable. They also know that the non-expended weapon will have some resale value when they are done with it, and the expended items will not.
And do you realize how much a Potion of Cure Disease could go for in the REAL WORLD?
It's a thorny issue. What's your inclination?
(Vaguely) related tales of stinginess:
* When Magic Becomes Mundane in RPGs
* Why I Gave Up On Dungeons & Dragons Online
* RPG Design: What Am I Going To Do With All This Money?
Conversation Extended Onto the Forum.
Labels: Game Design, Roleplaying Games
Comments:
Links to this post:
<< Home
I think that any game that allows the player to be a magic user has to water down magic somewhat, and make it commonplace. Furthermore, magic in games is usually reliable, consistent, and safe, and comes with no downsides beyond a high price tag. D&D also uses it as a crutch, in my opinion: magic equipment allows for minor boosts in ability between levels, so that characters do continue to become stronger. (Of course, my belief that the D&D level system is horribly broken might color that opinion.)
With Tolkien and Howard, part and parcel of the magic was the personality of the mage. It's not smart to just pick up and use a magic sword, because you have to consider what kind of person would enchant a sword -- and what they'd enchant it with.
To me, the solution is that most "enchantments" should be replaced with material and craftsmanship. If you need a +1 sword, you need either very good steel or a very good blacksmith. A +5 sword could require Damascus steel and Domingo Montoya, and be so personalized that anyone else would only get a +4 bonus, but require no magic.
Remember too that the bonus of getting a cool new sword is not just that it's better than the old one: it's also fame and repute. Being the fellow who reclaimed the Butterknife of Doom opens doors, gets attention. Trying to sell it would make the shopkeeper faint dead away. Imagine how much worse all the attention would be if the BoD is not that great a weapon! Now that's an interesting twist on the notion of a "cursed weapon" -- it's terrible, but everyone expects you to use it at every opportunity, and accuses you of all sorts of terrible things if you insist on using a "lesser" sword.
With Tolkien and Howard, part and parcel of the magic was the personality of the mage. It's not smart to just pick up and use a magic sword, because you have to consider what kind of person would enchant a sword -- and what they'd enchant it with.
To me, the solution is that most "enchantments" should be replaced with material and craftsmanship. If you need a +1 sword, you need either very good steel or a very good blacksmith. A +5 sword could require Damascus steel and Domingo Montoya, and be so personalized that anyone else would only get a +4 bonus, but require no magic.
Remember too that the bonus of getting a cool new sword is not just that it's better than the old one: it's also fame and repute. Being the fellow who reclaimed the Butterknife of Doom opens doors, gets attention. Trying to sell it would make the shopkeeper faint dead away. Imagine how much worse all the attention would be if the BoD is not that great a weapon! Now that's an interesting twist on the notion of a "cursed weapon" -- it's terrible, but everyone expects you to use it at every opportunity, and accuses you of all sorts of terrible things if you insist on using a "lesser" sword.
Heh - now I'm remembering the insane mages in Ultima VII. One got confused when asked to enchant a farmer's hoe (to make it stop breaking or something like that) and a warrior's sword. So you ended up with one of the best weapons in the game being the "Hoe of Destruction," available fairly early in the game
As to the warrior and his sword... well, let's just say that story ended badly...
As to the warrior and his sword... well, let's just say that story ended badly...
I remember feeling much frustration with Neverwinter Nights (as opposed to Baldur's Gate) since BG had trained me to keep a really wide selection of tools handy for all the craziness I might encounter, and in NWN all the weaponry felt much more generic and, almost entirely, was equally useful everywhere. This made loot un-fun.
Partly, in NWN's case, it was a result of the way they were building the toolset for player use, and trying to force 'balance'. (Cursed items were a big part of the problem, iirc.) Some items still had some unusual special effects, but for the most part things were pretty tame.
'You can't use this sword until you're level 6' also annoys me. It breaks things for character immersion and it also breaks things for player option. If I want to go on a dangerous sidequest early on to retrieve the incredibly powerful but hard-to-use and ANNOYING talking magical sword, I think that should be a valid option!
I hate being forced to swap out all my equipment for better gear all the time, it makes me feel like I'm stuck on a console-RPG treadmill, moving along an endless line of the next-better-sword.
Partly, in NWN's case, it was a result of the way they were building the toolset for player use, and trying to force 'balance'. (Cursed items were a big part of the problem, iirc.) Some items still had some unusual special effects, but for the most part things were pretty tame.
'You can't use this sword until you're level 6' also annoys me. It breaks things for character immersion and it also breaks things for player option. If I want to go on a dangerous sidequest early on to retrieve the incredibly powerful but hard-to-use and ANNOYING talking magical sword, I think that should be a valid option!
I hate being forced to swap out all my equipment for better gear all the time, it makes me feel like I'm stuck on a console-RPG treadmill, moving along an endless line of the next-better-sword.
Whiner - I think you've summed up a bunch of my issues with that mindset. There are some additional problems that came up in a discussion I had about this today - enough for a sequel post, I think.
Magic shouldn't be generic. It should be weird, somewhat unpredictable. Spikey.
And I think you have hit on something there with the NWN / BG comparison. We never played 3rd edition D&D strictly according to those rules... and in retrospect, I think with good reason. Things become too even, too balanced, and ... boring.
Magic shouldn't be generic. It should be weird, somewhat unpredictable. Spikey.
And I think you have hit on something there with the NWN / BG comparison. We never played 3rd edition D&D strictly according to those rules... and in retrospect, I think with good reason. Things become too even, too balanced, and ... boring.
When I'm thinking of magic the movie "Dragonslayer" always comes into my mind. Here magic is a) scarce and b) mostly powerful.
A sorcerer is something special in this movie and even though some of the villagers see him as a complete nutcase he of course is not.
In most FRPG magic is a "given" with a system that works like a bank - if you have enough money on your account you can make a withdrawal:
- If you have enough reagents you can make a spell which always has them same class/range of power.
- If you have enough mana you can cast the spell - nearly always with success.
Magic is kinda mundane in CRPGs.
And I really hate certain systems where you have to rest to memorize a handful of spells after which the magic wielder becomes nearly useless.
Sometimes the balancing consists of throwing sorcerer after sorcerer at the player - like in Oblivions numerous dungeon camps.
Magic is mostly used in combat and its effect isn't identical to what a warrior can deliver but the result is the same: The enemy is killed or otherwise driven off.
Why not giving a magic user completely different paths in the game? Especially in single player non-party games where a warrior type could storm some remote outpost, a thief could infiltrate it and a mighty sorcerer could level the whole friggin' structure!
A group of three or more powerful necromancers - and a fight against them - should be a real highlight of the game and not the norm.
But usually its not and I either play a bog standard warrior type (either Knight or Paladin - using magic only for a little healing) and slice up everything that doesn't wear heavy armour before they know it >:)
And yes, I'm also tired of beginning each and every game with some incompetent loser that has to learn everything (again).
Why not starting with really high powered characters that encounter some (but not all) high powered enemies?
Merry Christmas, by the way!
A sorcerer is something special in this movie and even though some of the villagers see him as a complete nutcase he of course is not.
In most FRPG magic is a "given" with a system that works like a bank - if you have enough money on your account you can make a withdrawal:
- If you have enough reagents you can make a spell which always has them same class/range of power.
- If you have enough mana you can cast the spell - nearly always with success.
Magic is kinda mundane in CRPGs.
And I really hate certain systems where you have to rest to memorize a handful of spells after which the magic wielder becomes nearly useless.
Sometimes the balancing consists of throwing sorcerer after sorcerer at the player - like in Oblivions numerous dungeon camps.
Magic is mostly used in combat and its effect isn't identical to what a warrior can deliver but the result is the same: The enemy is killed or otherwise driven off.
Why not giving a magic user completely different paths in the game? Especially in single player non-party games where a warrior type could storm some remote outpost, a thief could infiltrate it and a mighty sorcerer could level the whole friggin' structure!
A group of three or more powerful necromancers - and a fight against them - should be a real highlight of the game and not the norm.
But usually its not and I either play a bog standard warrior type (either Knight or Paladin - using magic only for a little healing) and slice up everything that doesn't wear heavy armour before they know it >:)
And yes, I'm also tired of beginning each and every game with some incompetent loser that has to learn everything (again).
Why not starting with really high powered characters that encounter some (but not all) high powered enemies?
Merry Christmas, by the way!
@calibrator:
A group of three or more powerful necromancers - and a fight against them - should be a real highlight of the game and not the norm.
Yes, exactly!
I think I disagree about systems that require you to rest to memorize spells for the next day, though: while it is annoying, it forces the kind of planning ahead that ALL the characters should be doing. Adventurers in these games put less thought into preparing for a dungeon crawl than I do for a day-long hike in the woods.
A group of three or more powerful necromancers - and a fight against them - should be a real highlight of the game and not the norm.
Yes, exactly!
I think I disagree about systems that require you to rest to memorize spells for the next day, though: while it is annoying, it forces the kind of planning ahead that ALL the characters should be doing. Adventurers in these games put less thought into preparing for a dungeon crawl than I do for a day-long hike in the woods.
The resource-management aspect of RPGs have been a key element since the earliest editions of D&D. Sure, in stories you could always have the villain wizard have apparently unlimited power. But when you let the players play wizards, you have to limit them somehow.
The whole spells-per-day / mana-points thing was just an easy balancing point to add to wargaming rules.
A lot depends upon your style of world. I mean, if you want a world where magic is ho-hum, then... well, then I'd say your average fantasy RPG system probably acts as a good simulation. It's just a form of technology. Every peasant ought to have a potion of healing or something like that stashed away in case of emergencies.
But if you want magic to be special and feel like magic, it has to be more limited than that.
I'm kinda fighting some of those aspects right now, TBH, with Frayed Knights. There's the issue of whether or not casting magic should be extremely potent but extremely limited, or minor and capable of being used every turn.
The whole spells-per-day / mana-points thing was just an easy balancing point to add to wargaming rules.
A lot depends upon your style of world. I mean, if you want a world where magic is ho-hum, then... well, then I'd say your average fantasy RPG system probably acts as a good simulation. It's just a form of technology. Every peasant ought to have a potion of healing or something like that stashed away in case of emergencies.
But if you want magic to be special and feel like magic, it has to be more limited than that.
I'm kinda fighting some of those aspects right now, TBH, with Frayed Knights. There's the issue of whether or not casting magic should be extremely potent but extremely limited, or minor and capable of being used every turn.
i think that cast magic should come in two flavors: 1. simple, easy, weak, 2. strong, complex, difficult. most spellcasters in stories have both, like gandalf's light spell and his "put out all nearby fires" spell the first one was used whenever it came in handy, the second one was used ONCE. he escaped from the clutches of the goblins in the hobbit with it. i'm fine with predicable magic, but a magic weapon that i find really awesome is one in a D&D game, called the tungus star. It was a +3 morning star which would do something randomly destructive when you hit somebody with it.
Post a Comment
Links to this post:
<< Home


