Thursday, April 05, 2007
How Does Apocalypse Cow Look?
I wanted to fix bugs in Apocalypse Cow last night (well, okay, "wanted" is perhaps too strong of a term), but I discovered that a single-use object in my "problem missions" (one of three that seem to always break or expose yet another flaw...) had somehow dissapeared from the directory. Nor could I find the original. I figured I could hunt it down on my laptop, but that finally pushed me over the edge to just go and completely revise mission 4.
Mission 4 was in some ways, "my baby." You'd build a bridge over a river, and then a missile truck (which always looked like crap) would come across, getting attacked by cows tied to helium balloons carrying bombs. Eventually it'd get to the other side, and launch a missile at the cow base, destroying it. It sounded like a good idea at the time. And it is one that made people say, "cool."
Building the bridge was... long and boring. And too tricky. The collision was always weird for placing the segments of the bridge. And it looked less-than-stellar. Protecting the truck was okay, but too haphazard. It just never played well, even though it had you do some interesting things in the game.
So now the missile truck has become mobile artillery, building the bridge has been changed to ferrying ammunition and replacement parts across the river, and I'm in the process of shortening the mission to about half the duration. It's going to take some additional work I wasn't planning on spending on the game, but it's one of those things that really needs to be done.
But about all I really got done last night was the mobile artillery. It still needs more work and detail. But here's an actual work-in-progress screenshot from Apocalypse Cow (though the artillery isn't in its correct position yet, and the target marker is pointing at something at the origin in this under-reconstruction mission):
So break it to me... how does it look? I'm not going for photo-realism here, nor cartoony, but something kinda in-between in a side-scrolling, silly action game.
Labels: Apocalypse Cow
- posted by The Rampant Coyote @ 9:09 AM (Permalink)
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Heh...very cool. Fun to see screens coming together. Couple of things I can see though.
Either the scoreboard needs to be smaller or the cows and other features need to be bigger, maybe a little of both.
The red arrow and targeting marks need crisper edges. Black outlining or such would be good.
More comments as I think of them.
Either the scoreboard needs to be smaller or the cows and other features need to be bigger, maybe a little of both.
The red arrow and targeting marks need crisper edges. Black outlining or such would be good.
More comments as I think of them.
Man, I love it when game reviewers point out the flaws BEFORE the game comes up for review, and there's time to change it.
Yer absolutely right. The HUD size has bugged me for a little while, but I didn't make it a priority. But the outlining is dead-on, and its obvious now that you mention it.
Yer absolutely right. The HUD size has bugged me for a little while, but I didn't make it a priority. But the outlining is dead-on, and its obvious now that you mention it.
Heh - yeah, last week I saw the "Ban Comic Sans" webpage, and thought, "Dang, I am SUCH a violator of this one..."
Part of the problem is the text in the cartoon bubbles (which will be a problem in the next game, too) --- I was going for the comic book look. And I'm paranoid about mixing fonts. Got any suggestion for a font that'll go with it?
Part of the problem is the text in the cartoon bubbles (which will be a problem in the next game, too) --- I was going for the comic book look. And I'm paranoid about mixing fonts. Got any suggestion for a font that'll go with it?
Death to Comic Sans. Never, ever use it.
But I agree, other than that, it's looking excellent! Can't wait to see it in action later this month.
But I agree, other than that, it's looking excellent! Can't wait to see it in action later this month.
By the way, if you're looking for a good comic book-style font, you can always buy a cheap one here:
http://www.myfonts.com/search?search%5Btext%5D=comic
Although I'm sure there are some good free ones out there.
http://www.myfonts.com/search?search%5Btext%5D=comic
Although I'm sure there are some good free ones out there.
Dunno if those will work well with Torque's text system. What's the big deal with Comic Sans anyway, other than the fact that it is overused?
Oh it's just awful. Can't really say more than that.
I use fonts from that site in my TGE game. They look awesome.
I use fonts from that site in my TGE game. They look awesome.
It looks and sounds pretty neat; any chance of our seeing a video? :)
So break it to me... how does it look?
I think you could make the important pieces more distinct and make the colors more (for lack of a better term) harmonious.
The chopper and the tank could stand out from the terrain more; at the moment, they sort-of blend into the background. Similarly, you might consider increasing the contrast between the terrain's background and foreground to give it more depth. Finally, you're using one hue of green for the grass, and then mixing in an ever-so-slightly bluer green for the chopper and a slightly browner green for the tank; I think those are working against each other.
I really don't know if these ideas are valid (I'm not an artist; just a developer with delusions of artistry), but I did a quick draw-over to illustrate what I was thinking:
http://www.synthscribe.com/media/apocontrast.jpg
By the way, if you're looking for a good comic book-style font, you can always buy a cheap one here...
I like Web Letterer Pro, and have (ab)used it for a few things.
So break it to me... how does it look?
I think you could make the important pieces more distinct and make the colors more (for lack of a better term) harmonious.
The chopper and the tank could stand out from the terrain more; at the moment, they sort-of blend into the background. Similarly, you might consider increasing the contrast between the terrain's background and foreground to give it more depth. Finally, you're using one hue of green for the grass, and then mixing in an ever-so-slightly bluer green for the chopper and a slightly browner green for the tank; I think those are working against each other.
I really don't know if these ideas are valid (I'm not an artist; just a developer with delusions of artistry), but I did a quick draw-over to illustrate what I was thinking:
http://www.synthscribe.com/media/apocontrast.jpg
By the way, if you're looking for a good comic book-style font, you can always buy a cheap one here...
I like Web Letterer Pro, and have (ab)used it for a few things.
Hmmm.... increased contrast is one thing, but you've also decreased the saturation level (it seems) on the background terrain / etc... and that might be the trick. I've tried doing some things already with flattening the terrain palette, and darkening it (which just made the whole game seem dark), but desaturation might work. I'm going to give that a try tonight! I might limit it to the terrain... I'm not sure that I want to give up the vivid sunsets quite yet (not that you can see ANYTHING like that in the stormy-cloudy-day backdrop I've currently got in the above screenshot!)
It's a fairly small screenshot so it's kinda hard to tell for sure, but here are my comments. I hope they are helpful:
1. I agree there's a "muddy" look between the terrain, the sky, the tank and the helicopter, but I'm not sure just adding contrast or desaturating will help. I think the biggest change but would help considerably is having more variety in the terrain itself, more scrub brush/plants, more dirt patches, more trees/varieties, etc. It's that huge "wash" of green in the bottom 2/3's of the screen that just makes everything blend together. A flat gray sky doesn't help.
2. The consistency of the art, the scale of the objects and HUD and the style of the special effects are all kinda competing against each other here. A specific example: the jet packs on the cow look great and if it was me I'd make it the direction the rest of the art would take, unfortunately the realistic camouflage on the tank and helicopter and the style of the explosion don't work well together for me (at least at this resolution). I can't say what art style you should choose but pick one and go for it. :)
So if you want to go with more realistic, then the jet packs and effects should match.
3. The HUD's very top heavy. Is it possible to move some of that to the bottom? I think getting it scaled down will help, but having it all clustered in the top corners feels weird. If it make sense to have it all together, I'd rather have my hud at the bottom or all along one side.
1. I agree there's a "muddy" look between the terrain, the sky, the tank and the helicopter, but I'm not sure just adding contrast or desaturating will help. I think the biggest change but would help considerably is having more variety in the terrain itself, more scrub brush/plants, more dirt patches, more trees/varieties, etc. It's that huge "wash" of green in the bottom 2/3's of the screen that just makes everything blend together. A flat gray sky doesn't help.
2. The consistency of the art, the scale of the objects and HUD and the style of the special effects are all kinda competing against each other here. A specific example: the jet packs on the cow look great and if it was me I'd make it the direction the rest of the art would take, unfortunately the realistic camouflage on the tank and helicopter and the style of the explosion don't work well together for me (at least at this resolution). I can't say what art style you should choose but pick one and go for it. :)
So if you want to go with more realistic, then the jet packs and effects should match.
3. The HUD's very top heavy. Is it possible to move some of that to the bottom? I think getting it scaled down will help, but having it all clustered in the top corners feels weird. If it make sense to have it all together, I'd rather have my hud at the bottom or all along one side.
A good example of the varied terrain I think is Think Tanks. It's very consistent with it's art design and it really adds interest and creates the variety I was talking about without going overboard.
Andrew -
Originally, I'd planned on having the human forces be exaggerated-but-realistic and the cow forces being more over-the-top cartoony. It sounded like a good idea at the time.
In retrospect... maybe not so much? You think there's a good way to make it work?
Originally, I'd planned on having the human forces be exaggerated-but-realistic and the cow forces being more over-the-top cartoony. It sounded like a good idea at the time.
In retrospect... maybe not so much? You think there's a good way to make it work?
I didn't mean to sound so negative :)
"Consistent" doesn't have to include everything in the scene - think roger rabbit. What's cartoony is all in the same style and what's real is real. It works. So I would maybe keep the jet packs for example realistic with the cows more cartoon like, and maybe not exaggerate the human objects so much? Anyway, as long as there is a consistency that makes sense to the user, then it's fine.
As I said before, it's hard when the screenshot is small. The biggest issue and probably the easiest to fix is the terrain. Adding some variation to the hills so they look like there's some shadowing would help... adding more variation to the types of terrain... getting some more meaningful "depth" between foreground and background. Then I would play around with mock ups of the HUD.
The more I look at it, I can see a kind of "apocalypse now" feel. I would really try to get that 70's vietnam war movie feel. Maybe add some smoke coming out of the jungle? More jungle? :)
I think you've got the makings of a very unique style, it just needs a few passes of polish.
"Consistent" doesn't have to include everything in the scene - think roger rabbit. What's cartoony is all in the same style and what's real is real. It works. So I would maybe keep the jet packs for example realistic with the cows more cartoon like, and maybe not exaggerate the human objects so much? Anyway, as long as there is a consistency that makes sense to the user, then it's fine.
As I said before, it's hard when the screenshot is small. The biggest issue and probably the easiest to fix is the terrain. Adding some variation to the hills so they look like there's some shadowing would help... adding more variation to the types of terrain... getting some more meaningful "depth" between foreground and background. Then I would play around with mock ups of the HUD.
The more I look at it, I can see a kind of "apocalypse now" feel. I would really try to get that 70's vietnam war movie feel. Maybe add some smoke coming out of the jungle? More jungle? :)
I think you've got the makings of a very unique style, it just needs a few passes of polish.
Looking good, but it's a bit hard to read. Some more saturation of colours, would really help that.
What would also help is to try and swing the style either further towards realism or further towards cartoony - my vote would be towards cartoony ;)
(This is a harsh one, sorry! The above would probably help solve it.) I know you're aiming for something in-between realism and cartoon but just now it's looking like it's aiming for realism and falling far short :x
Oh, and mark another one up for the "Ban Comic Sans" brigade ;)
What would also help is to try and swing the style either further towards realism or further towards cartoony - my vote would be towards cartoony ;)
(This is a harsh one, sorry! The above would probably help solve it.) I know you're aiming for something in-between realism and cartoon but just now it's looking like it's aiming for realism and falling far short :x
Oh, and mark another one up for the "Ban Comic Sans" brigade ;)
James & Andrew - Hey, that's the whole reason I posted this and solicited opinions! I knew it needed work, but my experience is as a programmer, not an artist, so I knew I needed help. You guys are giving me just the kind of feedback I need.
Not guaranteeing I'll be able to pull off exactly what it needs one way or another, but you guys are arming me with more knowledge. I appreciate that.
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Not guaranteeing I'll be able to pull off exactly what it needs one way or another, but you guys are arming me with more knowledge. I appreciate that.
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