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Monday, February 19, 2007
 
Action vs. Turn-Based RPGs: Evolution, Trend, Or Catering To The Lowest Common Denominator?
In the latest "Side Quest" column at RPG Watch, Corwin offers his two cents on the Great Debate: Turn Based or Real Time Combat?

Personally, I always thought the great debate was about "save anywhere", but maybe that's just me. It seems to me that, as far as mainstream is concerned at least, real-time combat has won. Game Over. I mean, when was the last mainstream turn-based combat RPG released (in the U.S., I'll stipulate... those wacky Japanese get all the cool stuff)? I'm not super-knowledgeable about recent console RPGs, but on the PC at least, the last one I can think of was the Temple of Elemental Evil. Which kinda bombed, from what I heard. I didn't play it on account of the stories of the awful bugs in the game, not because of the combat system. (UPDATE: I just got some reliable secondhand information that ToEE actually made Atari money. Just not as much as they'd have liked.)

Even the latest Final Fantasy game uses real-time combat, after a couple of decades of turn-based game systems (even if there were real-time components to the turns).

Help me out here if I'm missing one. Or a few dozen. I wish I was more "in the know" as to the goings-on in the CRPG world than I have time to be.

Todd Howard of Bethesda, which is creating Fallout 3, recently said in an interview, "Certainly turn-based combat limits your audience to a small number, but I do find that audiences will come if your game is good enough and the presentation is superb. Ultimately we'll do what we think will be the most fun."

"Certainly, turn-based limits your audience to a small number."
It does? It's being spouted off like a truism. And I don't doubt that a big part of Diablo's success was because it abandoned the original turn-based system in favor of the click-and-kill interface now aped by many mainstream PC RPGs nowadays. But I wonder what happened to all the fans of Final Fantasy VII, who made it the best-selling RPG of all time? Or all the fans of the original Fallout games. Or, much more recently, all the people that bought Final Fantasy X and X-2.

I wonder what Mr. Howard's definition of "a small number" is?

Now, I am going to assume for a moment that he's correct in that turn-based won't sell nearly as well as realtime. He states it as a given, and I'll take it at face value. So my next question is:

Why?

Possible answers:

#1 - The Market has Evolved
Back in the day, the old RPGs were designed to emulate an imperfect gaming system which had to be turn-based by virtue of human moderation. But with computer moderation and cleaner interfaces have arrived, it's natural to go towards more action-style play because it is inherently more fun (to most people) than the plodding, methodical turn-based system of the genre's roots.

We should move forward and not look back. Turn-based is dead.

#2 - It's A Trend
For a while, about a decade ago, RPGs seemed dead. They were revived by Diablo. Okay, that's an extremely Western point of view, as I don't think they ever fell out of favor in Japan, and I don't believe Diablo's success wasn't even half that of FF7. But that's a whole 'nother debate.

Anyway... things in the games business are cyclical. Success breeds more success, and the risk-averse publishers are simply following a well-blazed trail. Action-based RPGs are clearly selling now, and there's no clear indications that turn-based games will. If someone does take a risk and make a turn-based game that outsells the latest crop of action-RPGs, publishers and marketers will see it as a "change in the audience" (it's always the audience changing their tastes, not the fact that the game was actually good, for some reason) and will follow suit with a flood of turn-based RPGs again.

#3 - It's Catering to the Lowest Common Denominator
Turn-based fans will usually put up with action-based RPGs, but it the reverse does not apply. So if you want to sell a game to both audiences, you have to make your RPG more arcade-y. It's simple math, and Mr. Howard is simply trying to explain that when he says turn-based addresses a small audience. Relatively speaking, there's no question.


So... which is it? Or is it something else I haven't considered?

As for me... as a fan of turn-based I'd like to think it's #2, but I'm more inclined to believe #3. Though I think if they do decide to go turn-based for Fallout 3, and it turns out to be a hit of even half of Oblivion's proportions, we might expect to see a few more mainstream RPGs following suit. But I won't hold my breath.

Fortunately, there seems to be a bunch of indie developers willing to rush in where angels (and mainstream publishers) fear to tread. So turn-based RPGs remain alive and well for now, if not well-advertised.


(Vaguely) related brandishing of a +3 Keyboard of Charisma Loss:
* The Evolution of Computer RPGs
* RPG Combat Design
* Innovation in RPGs?
* Why Was Final Fantasy 7 So Successful?

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Comments:
Good post. I for one prefer turn-based combat.

I think that real-time combat currently does a better job of providing feedback to the players. (Diablo is a good example) But that doesn't mean that turn-based can't provide that same enjoyment factor.

Fallout had an excellent feedback system. But that is the most modern example I can think of a turn-based system with good feedback, and fallout is almost 10 years old.

Surely we know have the knowledge to build a good feedback oriented turn-based system.
 
I like turn-based combat - in PC games. In console games, at least the ones old enough that I've played them, it drives me crazy. There aren't enough choices for it to be interesting, and it makes the fights take FOR-EV-ER. It makes me long to be able to just run up and bash the monster with some button-pounding.

One big difference between the console and PC turn-based fights is that positioning matters in the PC examples I can think of. How much you can move during your turn and where you end up is very important. Especially if you end up between the baddie and your crazy teammate with the machine gun. Fights are like big strategy puzzles, and can be fun to back up and do over again to get a better result.

Console games... "Oh, is it my turn again? Page vaguely through menus, find the same attack I used every round previous, and do it again... unless I'm hurt." DULL. Now, this may have gotten better over the years, I don't know. Design people may have made some effort to either make choices more interesting and meaningful or to streamline the choices and make the fight flow faster.

Some designers may find it easier to make 'fun' action-based, real-time combat than to make fun strategic turn-based combat.
 
I personally like both, and still buy good turn based rpgs when I can find them. To this day my absolute favorite combat and stat system is that of the Realms of Arcania. Everything mattered in that game, it was incredible. The combat was insane, many fights are just barely beatable.

I believe a turn based rpg done well will have a higher replay value. I still play Wizardry 7 from time to time but Daggerfall just annoys me.

Action rpgs take away my favorite aspect of an rpg, the party. I love creating a party of characters, and trying to strategically match them against the enemy.
 
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned Xenosaga yet, but that's turn based and really cool. And then there's pokemon, but that's in a league of it's own.
 
Ar Tonelico on the PS2. Current, and practically turn-based, although it's actually real-time if you look closely.
What I want in a combat system is the ability to pause indefinitely between actions. So if the box says "real-time" or "action" anywhere on it, I won't buy it. Same thing goes for timed button-pushing to do more damage as in the Shadow Hearts titles. If I lose because my family distracts me during a battle and I'm not pressing any buttons, it's not for me.
 
Like gegi said, certain turn-based games are full of pure dullness, when all you're doing is waiting for your turn to press "attack" and that's it.

But I'm a fan of turn-based, when it's got some strategy and risk/reward elements. Two of the best games I can think of in this regard are Final Fantasy Tactics (I prefer Tactics Advance) and Pokemon. And Pokemon's up there with FF7 as a pretty big money-maker.

Plus, I think there's an inherent relationship between graphics and realtime action. Pokemon can be turn-based because it's so simple and symbolic, but Morrowind can't because it's so graphically advanced and trying-to-be-real that players would question the unreality of turns. There's certainly something to be said fr the sheer heart-pounding thrill of fighting in the moment, but I'd rather play games which allow me to relax my heartbeat while I really think about my next move.
 
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