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Friday, April 07, 2006
 
RPG Conversation Redesign
So I was dwelling on Noah Falstein's article in this month's "Game Developer" magazing about "Emergent Complexity." (See his 400 list, item # 105, if you haven't read the article). Muddled with that was a couple of talks I heard LONG ago by Chris Crawford on storytelling in games, and some ideas I have had in my brain about creating "non-combat challenges" in Computer Role-Playing Games (CRPGs), and the trickiness of doing conversations in said games. And risk-reward structures, etc.

Am I the only guy who ever muses on these things? This probably reveals way more about my lack of mental stability than I should be admitting in public. But oh, well..

Anyway, so I'm ruminating on this collection of topics, and I have a "Duh!" moment. Which is sort of like an, "Ah-hah!" moment, but more of a realization of how I've been handling things all WRONG while simultaneously discovering the blindingly obvious. Why I was having a tough time working out how to make conversation work as a game challenge. Part of it was that I was still thinking inside the box of how conversations are handled in other RPGs.

And quite frankly, in about every Computer RPG I can think of, Non-Player Character (NPC) Conversations are simply a variant of terrain.

Huh?

Think about it. What is the purpose of terrain in an RPG? It's not really part of gameplay. It's mainly something to navigate and explore, something which creates a natural separation between game segments. It gives you different visuals and pretty stuff to look at. But there's not really an option of "failing" to navigate the terrain - it's either possible, or not given your current game state.

NPC Conversations serve the same function. You navigate the conversation trees, which dispense knowledge about the game world (scenery). Conversations separate the game elements by unlocking options. If there are any random elements in conversations, it is restricted to purely optional content. But everything else is automatic, you just have to walk your way through the "conversation path" to access it. To quote Yoda, you either "Do, or do not. There is no try."

In order to turn the 'conversation engine' of an RPG into a full-fledged part of gameplay, you need to make a few fundamental changes:

Risk / Reward:
You need to add a risk / reward structure for all conversational options, including the (possibly invisible) option to not engage in conversation whatsoever. The "reward" is the easy part. Gifts, payments, or access to additional content are already common. The trick is forcing the player to invest some kind of game resource into the conversation. The player character has nothing to lose by talking to everyone available and exploring every conversation tree as fully as possible.

In The Sims, this investment really comes down to in-game "time." Poor performance in a conversation can have a negative effect on the relationship between the characters, which means more time will have to be spent later to "repair" the relationship.

Most RPGs don't really have "time" as a gameplay element. Some games will have day and night cycles which might have some effect on availability of NPCs and shops and so forth, but time is RARELY plot-critical. The imminent invasion by demonic hordes will almost always pause in their plans until you've cleared out the newbie dungeons and talked to everyone in town six times.

But time doesn't have to be the resource to be invested by the player. It could be something as abstract as a "number of conversations allowed in a row," or preferably something closer to how Real Life works. But the player has to be required to put in-game resources at risk somehow.

Failure Must Be An Option
So the next thing that needs to happen is that the player needs to be allowed to "fail" conversations.

I think the lack of failure as an option at all is exactly why most combat is generally the most common in-game challenge: Failure effectively ends the game (with the death of the Player Characters), so the designers don't have to deal with the explosion of branches that could occur. Like what would happen if the players FAIL to rescue the princess from the dragon? The entire rest of the game would have to be written to handle both the "Princess-Rescued" and "Princess-Was-Devoured" outcomes. Multiply that by hundreds of such outcomes, and it can be tough in a story-based game.

Non-story based games, like "Civilization," take this kind of thing into stride. Failures and successes are simply abstracted into the running game state. But the flip side of this is that individual successes or failures lose importance before the aggregate whole. We'd really like the fact that the player botched the princesses' rescue attempt to MATTER in the course of a game.

But bringing it back to NPC conversations. Traditional "conversation tree" design wouldn't allow something like this to be bolted on. The game would screech to a halt if the player had to make a "conversation" skill check on every branch to continue exploring the tree, and somehow managed to fail every roll with major NPCs. The player might find themselves unable to leave the newbie area of the game. Instead, a much more "organic" system would have to be put in place that could aggregate individual successes and failures, never leaving the game in an unwinnable game state.

And then....?
Hmmm.... I thought I had a third thing, but it's eluding my sleep-starved brain right now. So maybe it wasn't as blindingly obvious as I thought.

So that's what I've got so far. This doesn't solve the problem, but it does point out some directions to look for a solution. So am I on drugs, or shouting from the lowly heights of Mount Obvious? Or both? Post and let me know!

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Comments:
Like you said, you can't put a game into an unwinnable state through a character messing up a conversation, unless the game is all about the conversation (ala, Facade).

I could see a few options for how to recover when a character messes up and loses the conversation, but they're (to use the analogy again) a variation of terrain:

* Move the key conversation to another NPC. "I heard you really annoyed Madame DeVillers. I might be able to tell you about the hidden rose garden--for a price."

* Add a mechanism to restore NPC or conversation state. "I heard you really annoyed Madame DeVillers. You know, she loves roses and might be willing to talk to you again if you bring her a bouquet."

* Create an alternative to conversation to advance the plot (that optionally becomes active after the conversation was failed). After searching the library for hours, you discovered a record in the town council meetings from 30 years ago. Ebenezer Flintlock out by the old reservoir was supposed to have built the hidden garden. Maybe he still knows how to find it?

I fear the conversation tree is deeply embedded in the gamer's psyche, at least since we all started playing graphical games with lists of responses. Perhaps a review of conversations in text adventures (especially Infocom games) would be in order.

An analogy to the conversational recovery mechanism: imagine a stereotypical dungeon game where one particular monster (randomly chosen) held the key to the next level. Imagine as well that some of the monsters run when low on health, and that a bug or problem with geometry would prevent the player from recovering the key from the monster. Arguably, this would be something that should be caught during playtesting and corrected. What if the game kept track of state and changed the terrain to account for the player's failure: the door was unlocked by a trash monster spawned for the purpose of keeping the game progressing. This seems analagous to what you propose.

As a designer, wouldn't you instead say that we have a flawed premise: only one monster holds the key. Instead, we could say that the chance any monster has the key is ( monsters killed * 1.2 / monsters in the dungeon ), so that the player will always have the key before he kills the last monster in the dungeon.

Likewise, as a designer you can say that the key to unlock the next stage of game content, via conversation, should be more likely to occur as the player talks to more NPCs. Does this mean that blocks of conversational data are moved into the NPC's conversation tree/keyword list? Which leads to another interesting topic: would you define conversations in a tokenized way so that NPCs can apply their own dialect or style to the content?
 
The thing you are suggesting (moving conversations) is exactly what I've been playing around with for a slow-burn RPG I've been working on. But there are further issues that get complicated when you do that.

First off, the player is encouraged to ignore most of the NPCs, "pumping" a select few for information because eventually they'll reveal most bits of info. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, as it represents how we people tend to operate in real life. However, you end up with a lot of work being ignored in your game. :) If the player can then be encouraged to gradually expand his group of "contacts" into tiers, that would better mimic "real life". Little bits of verisimilitude (I hope I spelled it right) can go a long way.

I don't think it's the "conversation tree" itself that is embedded within the gamer psyche, so much as the presentation thereof as a choice of options at points in a conversation. I think this is a fine presentation - but nothing says that this list of options has to be static. In fact, in most RPGs, it is not.
 
Personally I always liked the old-style conversations where you actually had to type keywords in and the conversation tree was essentially invisible. (think Wizardry)

The reward was that if you were smart/attentive, you could ask/say unusual things and get unusual rewards. That's so much more fun than filling out multiple choice questionaires (yaaawwwnnn).
 
Totally unrelated, but since you are interested (as you claimed elsewhere) in humour in games see this link.
 
Good link, dirkk, thank you!

tealeaf, I think I'm in the same boat as you - I prefer more open-ended systems. But I find most players do not. I remember when I started playing Ultima 7, and you got a menu of choices instead of the open-ended keyword options of Ultima 1-6. At first I thought, "What? I can't enter in ANYTHING?"

It did kill some of the amusing easter-eggs of the older games (like yelling "FLIP FLOP" in one of the Ultimas, or attempting to enter profanity), but I found that in very short order I found myself not missing it so much. It did help resolve some frustration for many players, I think, as they no longer worried that they were stuck because they'd failed to come up with the correct "magic word."
 
Morrowind almost started to do something cool like how you suggest.

(I know you've played Morrowind, but for anyone out there who hasn't...)

NPCs generally had a neutral feeling towards you when you first talk to them. This was shown on a bar in the dialogue window; they like you 50% out of 100%, where 100% is love, and 0% is hate. You could do things to persuade them to like you or dislike you, such as bribe them with various amounts of gold (the more gold, the higher the chance of them liking you more) and there was a risk/reward to that system, because there was always a chance (especially with lesser bribes) that they'd feel offended and consequently like you less. This I thought was a pretty neat system. Unfortunately, it wasn't related to their conversation material at all! I remember when characters wouldn't have anything to say, and I thought that if I just raised their liking of me high enough, they'd eventually share some secrets... but alas, I tried it on many, and none worked this way.
Also in Morrowind, NPCs commented on how grand you looked if you were wearing expensive clothes (and they'd be disgusted if you were in underwear) but these were just surface comments, and also didn't affect your information-oriented conversations with them, unfortunately.

I really like what you said about the actual conversation having risks. I'm really going to ponder this one for my own game...

Thanks for all the thought-provoking and fun articles!
 
Actually, the risk / reward went even further in Morrowind ... the money was the risk. And part of the reward was a chance of increasing your conversation skill.

That's the thing... when I was looking back at it, Morrowind & Oblivion actually have closer to what I'd consider a strong conversation system than about any other RPG. Yeah, the conversation-wheel mini-game in Oblivion is... well, better than nothing I guess. But they have both gone a little bit beyond the traditional connversation-tree.

More recently, I'm playing with a conversation system in Frayed Knights. More details forthcoming. I have no idea if it will work or not.
 
>I remember when I started playing >Ultima 7, and you got a menu of >choices instead of the open-ended >keyword options of Ultima 1-6

I agree, I much prefer the typing in the earlier ults. For what it's worth I would like to see NPCs with their own motivations and opinions which cause them to act. Primary motivations might be to get food and find shelter, which might then cause them to go to work, go to market, pay rent etc, relatively straightforward. If they then had foresight that some event would cut off food supply or shelter, this would then create more interesting behaviors. I would like to see NPCs more in this organic evolving style (think like the cities grow and have needs in Civilization).

end of 2c
 
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